Discussion: Your thoughts on revamps?

[Mistress Morbid]

So with some of the recent pet revamps I've noticed a lot of discussion surrounding the topic of changing a pet's look, and thought it would be cool to get a thread started on it.

I really like seeing everyone's varying opinions on revamps as a whole, and I figure it could be interesting to talk about.

So...share your thoughts on the subject. Have you ever had a pet revamped that you absolutely hated? What did you do about it? Abandon it, turn it into something else, get used to it eventually, use the old image as an overlay, etc. Same goes with revamps that you loved, and anything else that pertains.

I'll post my own thoughts in a bit, I'm just about to leave work. ^^;

[ZomgethMew]

Hm.. I disliked the Graveyard Kanis revamp, and I think if I /do/ get one, I'll definitely go for the overlay route :3 I also used an overlay for my Chibi Kanis, but that was minor.

I absolutely /hated/ the Field Feli revamp, though. I changed mine into a Cream Feli; it lost a heck of a lot after the revamp, and that's saying a lot .

[Elfwoman99]

My opinion doesn't actually matter because I don't play Subeta, I just come here to look at the art. But I think every change of pet art should be polled, whether it changes a whole species or an individual color/species combo. When a whole species revamp is decided on, I think that significant color changes to the colorfills should also be polled. The whole-species polls should have at least 3 options, use instant-runoff, and not be winnable with merely 51%. And people who already owned that pet before the poll opened should have more say in the poll than anyone else, or should have the option to keep the old version like Bonecrivain suggested.

I also think that when whole species are revamped, that the necessity it will create for "consistency" revamps of redraw colors should be considered. If removing the mouth from the basic Kora, or rearranging the Serpenth's face, had been considered in this light, maybe it wouldn't have been done. Rah is probably the Subeta artist who goes to the greatest trouble to make her revamps resemble the originals, but it is not possible to do that perfectly. I also think that minor anatomy variation should be tolerated for redraw colors -- not huge anatomy differences like presence/absence of a mouth or whole limbs, but small differences in the shape of the face, proportions of the limbs, location of fur tufts, details of color markings, and so on. That might make some single-color revamps unnecessary, and allow, for example, a hypothetical polar bear Glacier Anyu.

[AngharadTy]

I've had... eight? pets get revamped; 6 of them have overlays. One is the old art (reborn kumos--I need my sighthound!), one is a fairly significant edit that fixes all the things that were changed and I did not like (graveyard keeto), and four are small-ish edits so that they can still be the characters I had in mind.

In the case of the reborn kumos, the new art is gorgeous but it wasn't my pet at all. At allllllll. Yes, all the major points were there, but it was significantly different in so many ways that it was not the same pet. That hurt.

Another revamp, the graveyard keeto, was so wildly different in every single way, and some of the features were just ugly to me. I tried for months to come up with something to change him into, because he just looked awful, before I got a great overlay that repaired him.

The other pets kept the spirit, but in my head, my pets had specific features (like the gold on the galactic wyllop); they were more or less sacrificed in the name of consistency.

The big exception was the sheeta. I hated the entire revamp because it was not my pet anymore. The colors were wrong, especially--another sacrifice to God Consistency. I like the revamp now, because yeah, the art is clearly better. But I still could never settle on it being My Pet Now, and I changed Delgado into a spectrum kumos, a pet that I love but I have never been 100% satisfied with her because I had to give up her old form. That was before overlays were The Thing... maybe I'd do it differently if it happened today. But, at the time, I couldn't have her be a sheeta anymore.

I've also had to remove/hide/sell quite a few items--minions, treasure items, gallery items.... Sometimes they've changed for the better, but sometimes they realllllyyyyyy haven't. Who else remembers the insanity over the Emancipate? Changing an item people paid for...! At least it ended up good, but maybe that's just compared to how wrong it went in the middle? ;) And I still miss my baby cthulhu a lot. It's in my vault just in case it ever gets fixed, sigh.

So to sum up, I hate "consistency" and how it applies to revamps. I appreciate that you need some consistency, but I also strongly believe it limits possibilities when you keep to it so strictly that you end up saying, "Oh well, some people might be upset, but At Least It's Consistent."

[Griffin]

I think revamps always matter most to people who own the pet. With pets I don't own, I generally only see the quality of the art.

Like Ty mentioned with the Sheeta, that revamp was certainly an upgrade in art quality but my perception of the personality changed. Mine was a Field Sheeta because I loved the mint colours, and you know what happened there. On one hand, consistency is probably for the best... but honestly, Field is a godawful colour scheme. Most of them are, imo. I changed her to Cream and recently I've even salvaged her old colours with the glory that is photoshop.


Oh, something I wanted to bring up but didn't want to make a topic. When I learned that you can overlay minions on your pet's lookup as well, I thought of the Beat, my old favourite minion whose revamp disappointed me. I looked all over for the old image and found this site that seems to have most of the revamped minion images. I'm inbetween liking the new one's quality and the old one's feel, so I dunno if I'll overlay it.

[Officer 1BDI]

What many of you have already said about the Sheeta is what I was saying about the Demi when its first revamp preview was revealed. It was a humongous upgrade in terms of quality, but the pet's personality just... shifted. And then, just when I was finally growing attached to the new Demi, the revamp went "official" and all of the basic colors were changed... and my Sun Demi looked nothing like the pet I had originally created. My solution was to turn her Cream, and then eventually Reborn, and I'm now actually working on an overlay that'll return her to her original color scheme.

At this point, I think I've just accepted that revamps are a necessary evil, and that most of it really depends on how attached to a particular pet I was before it was changed. There are some pets that have gotten them and I've adored the results (the Anyu, Lasirus, and Endeavor all come immediately to mind), some that I've been fairly "meh" over (the Antlephore) and some that have made me cock my head at the screen and wonder what the heck someone was thinking.

I think the only revamp that actually pissed me off to the point of cursing at my monitor was the changing of the robot Santa minion into that robot Melody item when Luminaire was invented. I didn't sell it because it was still relevant to my pet's TC, but the reason I'd bought it in the first place was because of the (accidental?) nod to Futurama, and that was lost entirely. Plus, I just thought the Santa version looked cooler.

[Wingsrising]

I was strongly displeased with the Bloodred Aerie revamp (which most people here seemed to adore). Not only did it drastically change the personality of the pet (the old one wasn't a redraw and thus not particularly fierce) but it was also just really bad from an artistic standpoint. I might have been able to adjust to the personality change if the art had been good.

I painted Windborne Twilight, but I was sorry to have to do it because being Bloodred was part of his backstory. I'd try to make an overlay for him if I had the slightest idea how to go about it.

The main Aerie revamp I thought was fantastic, though.

[Rah]

Hey you know, I think Luxe would be open to some new basic colourfills in the future. The old sheeta mint green would be a lovely colourfill. And the old sun. Not to mention a bunch I have in mind! (The lavender colour from the old lilac ruffie was a favourite of mine) I'm not saying 'tell me now and it will be done next week' but hey, suggestions have to start somewhere. Maybe grab a bunch together and post them in the suggestions forum? OR USE UR CONNEXSHUNS TO ME MAYBE (ie just post them here xD)

As to the topic in hand - oh gosh, I think I would die if every single thing ever was polled. I mean, it's ok for someone like me who works full time for subeta and pretty much devotes all her time to it - well, even then I find it difficult to get my quota of work done per month, but my turnaround is good on the pet side of things, but I'm an anomaly. If every pet revamp and colour fill was polled, the length of time it would take to get stuff out would increase, and we'd have much fewer pets released throughout the year. We have way too many users now to get through a poll un-stressfully, and it just wouldn't be economical to have keith pay us to work on the same thing for a month at a time. Especially the artists that are fitting their work in in the spare moments between school. Sometimes (and more regularly now, to be honest) we just have to weigh up the amount a pet costs to draw with how many people are going to be unhappy with it. The only things that are cost effective to be polled and re-polled are the base species, and even those take a huge toll on the artist doing them. Time that really needs to be put into event items, normal items, holiday items, clothing, cash shop stuff etc.

On a more personal note, I have been effected by pet revamps. I preferred the older hydrus swampie. Even though I drew the new GY kanis, my own pet suited the old GY kanis and so he got an overlay. I don't really have a problem with using overlays, but I'm totally biased on this point because a) I can draw them myself and b) I work for the site in question. Haha I can't be trusted at all. I get the whole progression thing for sure - oh but I know if the chibi montre were ever to be redrawn, I would probably not be able to let go of the current one. I would keep that image on my pet's page for always because I think it's a beautiful piece of art, and it just IS my pet.

I have enjoyed revamps a lot - the most recent being the hydrus hikei. I turned my pet Mule into one temporarily, but then never changed him back because I love it so much.

[Seerow]

As Officer said, it depends on how attached to a pet I am. I tend to like revamps and there are many many pets I now absolutely love (the standard Lasirus, Torrey, and Malticorn spring immediately to mind) whereas before I'd considered adblocking them multiple times.

I don't think each color revamp should be polled as nothing would ever get done, there'd just be a huge line of pets in different states of limbo. I think with the availability of overlays and also the Your Image Here FF add-on that redraws aren't quite as drastic as they used to be before that stuff was commonplace. Someone could simply use the add-on and never have to see the new version again, anywhere, and thus forget all about it and go back to loving the old one.

I do like when artists (and Rah is the queen of this) try to keep the same feel and general poses and such of the pets she redraws to please the old owners. I do however think there is too much emphasis on constancy. Just look how horrid the Glacier Pherret came out because the head had to be that color to be consistent with the species for example. I think a few things can be overlooked when dealing with revamps and a bit more artistic freedom should be granted. After all, look how everyone loves when Spotted pets over on Neo break the mold sometimes. Nothing quite so drastic, but a looser color palate and such would be nice on some pets.

I think a lot of it also has to do with the staff reactions as well. I hated the Dragon revamp so so much, and my mood wasn't helped at all by the artist's mood towards it and the refusal for really any changes. Another somewhat related point: I don't get why some pets try to go back to their roots (such as the recent Irion with bird talons). Honestly, how many current users were around to even remember that version?

[AngharadTy]

I've just gotta say, an overlay only helps with the pet's page itself and not the other various places you keep seeing your pets. And not everyone wants to switch browsers for one reason alone (I don't like the feel of firefox, I will not use it), and even then, it still feels like cheating to some. It's still drastic to some people.

[Joey]

I think the only revamp that actually pissed me off to the point of cursing at my monitor was the changing of the robot Santa minion into that robot Melody item when Luminaire was invented. I didn't sell it because it was still relevant to my pet's TC, but the reason I'd bought it in the first place was because of the (accidental?) nod to Futurama, and that was lost entirely. Plus, I just thought the Santa version looked cooler.

This. There's few enough beard items on the site, I don't want them replaced by that beardless Santa-replacement!

I've personally never had any of my pets revamped. I actually made my Chibi Montre in hopes that it will be revamped soon, because I like the pet but not the artwork. I generally look forward to revamps because I'm very picky about my pets and revamps are a chance for a pet I'm meh about to really stand out. I feel for you guys who have pets you really love revamped into something you hate, but I personally see revamps as a positive thing.

[Tiki]

I guess I must be an oddball, because I have never outright hated a revamp. Ever. Probably because I have always understood that nothing online lasts forever, let alone 6 months. If you are the type of person who does not adjust well to change, I cannot fathom why you would invest much time at all into any online game whatsoever. It just seems like you're constantly setting yourself up for unnecessary stress and heartbreak.

Your XBox CDs will never change because they are physical and you own them; online, everything is fluid. That's just the way it is, and I dare anyone to make an online game where every pixel stays "true" to the original for years... and for that game to remain progressive and successful.

[bonecrivain]

If you are the type of person who does not adjust well to change, I cannot fathom why you would invest much time at all into any online game whatsoever. It just seems like you're constantly setting yourself up for unnecessary stress and heartbreak.

Now you're just being condescending. Expressing your point of view is one thing; belittling the way others clearly view their pets and their time on the internet is another. You play Subeta one way. Some of us are attached to our silly pixels, and arguing that we shouldn't be never goes well.

[TCStarwind]

This is an interesting topic, I agree.

I myself have only lost one pet to a revamp I hated. I potioned my Ikkaku into a graveyard malticorn for two reasons: I thought the personality matched up exactly with the character I saw on TV every week, and I thought it was hilariously ironic that the character on the show was bald and the malticorn had long, silky hair. The revamp pretty much killed both of those things for me. No longer did the GY malticorn look arrogantly cocky, strong and beautiful (for a GY pet anyway), to something that looked to me like a bully and did not have pretty, silky fur. I decided to wait a bit and see if it grew on me (and used an overlay on his lookup, but that doesn't work anywhere else), but it didn't, so as soon as the GY paralix was revamped, I potioned him right away. But... now that it's been over a year, the revamped GY malti has kinda grown on me, and as much as I would have hated to admit it back then, still kinda fits the personality I had in mind a lot more than the GY paralix does, which is awesome and badass, but seems to be distancing itself from what I think I want. And because of that, I'm thinking of changing him back when I get the SP. And making him an overlay so that he's absolutely perfect.

So, I've kinda come in a full circle. And I definitely see why revamps can hurt. And I've been (mostly) lucky enough to have picked pets that haven't needed to be revamped. So much so that I refuse to potion a pet into something that I know will eventually be revamped because I don't want to get attached to something only to dislike the revamp enough that I must change it into something else for my own sanity.

I'm sorry I'm not being very coherent. I've had a long day and it's kinda affecting my brain.

[Tiki]

If you are the type of person who does not adjust well to change, I cannot fathom why you would invest much time at all into any online game whatsoever. It just seems like you're constantly setting yourself up for unnecessary stress and heartbreak.

Now you're just being condescending. Expressing your point of view is one thing; belittling the way others clearly view their pets and their time on the internet is another. You play Subeta one way. Some of us are attached to our silly pixels, and arguing that we shouldn't be never goes well.

Woah, woah, woah. I was not intending to be belittling at all, and yet again I feel like we're letting emotions get in the way of logic. I have watched this site for well over 4 years, despite only being a member for 2- and how many of us have played Neopets since 2000? How many have been strongly invested in online games for well over a decade? I'm simply saying that, over the years, I have watched this very backlash happen over and over and over again.

Perhaps nobody here is nearly as upset in real life as they come off to be online, but when observers read many of these posts, it looks like some members are on the verge of slicing their wrists because their pet was redrawn. That is why I am expressing an honest concern that if you know you are deeply attached to the image, and you have played games like this for years, and you KNOW that they will NEVER stay the same no matter how much you fight and claw your way to keep them that way... then why are you putting yourself in a position to be this upset in the first place?

I have said over and over that I play Subeta/Neo/Wajas/Tygras/Insert Game Here for the pets. I don't play for the items, the money, the avatars, or anything else. It has always been the pets for me. The difference to me, it seems, is that my characters are based solely in my head and are not contingent on whether or not the pixels match exactly. If my pet is redrawn/updated/deleted (LOL, Melvin) then it is still my pet in the end.

Again, think logically. What pet has ever remained identical on a site for years? Every single person here knows change is coming, it is inevitable, and yes, bitching is allowed. It's more than allowed; bitching or happily raving about new colors is the very basis of this community! But at the same time, you have to understand that once it begins to stress you to the point where you claim you want to quit after every revamp, or that you "hate" what the site has become... it's time to find a different hobby.