Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

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Seerow
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Seerow »

See Luxe, that reasoning actually makes sense and is a hell of a lot more enlightening then what was posted in the comments. Just saying "Because cat and dog aren't capitalized" in the news comments gives us nothing of the context of the change and it just seems like a stupid change for a stupid reason, and because of this many people got angry and it just escalates from there.

I personally think this whole thing would have gone a lot smoother if you (staff here, no personal you) had waited to use this new caps rules when the Subetapedia was released and have a small blurb in the news post about the change. People could more easily see where staff were coming from with this change and be more accepting instead of worrying that every species/color from now on were going to be written in lower case.
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Sianach
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Sianach »

Wow. Way to go, Keith. Great way to alienate even more users. Just because people speak up and share similar thoughts and feelings on a subject does not make them hive minded.

I would hate to through around names, but the brown nosers on the actual site seem more like hive minded than the people on here. Because, come on, you know that's who make most of the comments when agreeing. 40% are probably being honest in their agreement, where as 60% are just say that so they don't get on staffs bad side. Which is sad, really. People should speak their mind, otherwise how do you get honest feedback?
bonecrivain
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by bonecrivain »

I've read every single comment on the Dragon/Rreign news post, and I can say with absolute certainty that NO ONE has been ruder or more demeaning than Subeta staff members. This includes Jessyta, Iggy, and several others. Their comments drip with sarcasm: "OMG, REALLY? Did you just go there...? It is now a BAD thing to try to be different, original and unique? Someone alert the presses because this is BREAKING NEWS PEOPLE!!!! - Jessyta" They call out individual users and mock them for their opinions. They punctuate their responses with profanity. Obviously I don't have a problem with swearing in general, but you are STAFF. You NEVER swear at your customers. It's simply another sign of Subeta's extremely unprofessional behavior and attitude. I think Luxe does try to balance customer relations, and I appreciate that, but I still see an overwhelming trend with staff members taking things far more personally than the regular people on Subeta. We're told to stop whining and "bawwwwwing" (a comment I also find extremely offensive), yet staff members seem to do more whining than anyone else. It's your job. If you want to sit around in staff-groups and complain about irritating people on Subeta, go ahead. I've done plenty of complaining with my co-workers in the past. But that should not cross over into the public sphere, ESPECIALLY not on Subeta itself.

I've defended Jessyta on NC before, because although I disagreed with her, I thought that she had a right to state her opinion without being attacked, and as a mod, I felt compelled to defend that right. However, there is no excuse to fly into NC on a raging rampage every single time we have a discussion about a site change that is making numerous people unhappy. We weren't attacking staff members or telling you to shut up. We were talking about the changes (to the name, to the capitalization on the site), and our different responses and opinions. Despite what Keith may think, those of us on Neocolours don't all agree 100%. The changes in capitalization bug me, but they won't make me stop visiting Subeta. I think "Rreign" is a stupid name, and it bothers me as a word-lover. But it's not going to keep me away from Subeta. That doesn't mean that I'll refrain from pointing out the inconsistent (and sometimes nonexistent) logic being used to explain silly and unnecessary changes.

Maybe one customer not buying milk won't make much of a difference to a massive grocery store chain. But Subeta isn't a huge corporation, and you don't have millions of paying customers. The comparison doesn't work. I'm not threatening to withdraw my financial support: I haven't given Subeta money in a very, very long time. But you should be a little bit more concerned about the people you're alienating.
Rah
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Rah »

Jessyta isn't staff.

Edit:

And the customer is /not/ always right.
bonecrivain
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by bonecrivain »

My mistake. I assumed that since she talks as though she has staff authority, that she was on Subeta's staff.

In reality, the customer is not always right. There are absolutely horrible people out there--I've had to deal with some of them! It was difficult to not lose my temper. But it was my job, so I took a few deep breaths and dealt with them politely and with as much respect as I could muster.

The customer may not be RIGHT, but it is the staff's responsibility to treat them with courtesy.
Jessyta
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Jessyta »

Jazzy wrote:Jessyta: I know exactly why you repeated what Jessi said - hell, I even know what the linguistic term for doing that is.

However. If you say something, the defence of "I was only copying $person, I didn't actually say it" doesn't work. You did say it.
I did pose a question. I did not tell anyone to shut up, which is what I was accused of doing.

bonecrivain - I have not been a member of Subeta staff for over a year, and it was discussed in length on this very forum when I was removed. Please do not hold me to the same standards you hold Subeta staff to, or judge them for my actions.
Fuzzy
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Fuzzy »

Luxe wrote:With the release of the Subetapedia drawing closer, and even a bit of lore behind an upcoming holiday, it came to our attention that the more casual mention of species and colors on site looked better lowercase. An entire article with species and color capitalized looked very awkward. There is also an upcoming NPC whose name is in the format of Adjective Species, and more than anything else, that in particular got the gears turning. What way was there to distinguish Adjective Species from other Adjective Species(es)? Why was that a proper noun?
I've been reading this topic for a while now, and I just wanted to thank you for the explanation. With this,
I understand why you (staff) have decided to change the capitalization. It makes it look less like a pointless change. Although I would prefer the names to remain capitalized for aesthetic reasons, I understand that it would look strange in the context of an encyclopedia type setting.

Now about the Dragon/Rreign. I still can't seem to pronounce it right. The "growl" sound that is supposed to go at the beginning is what gets me. Before reading the pronunciation guide, I pronounced both Rs separately, kind of like "Luhloyd" for LLoyd.Not that I say Lloyd like that... I've just resorted to calling them Benny. And if they want to toast me for it, that's fine.

That's my two cents...
Iggy
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Iggy »

Staff were not the only dispensers of snark. I decided to get you this jewel, from the revamp sticky.
Rreign

It sucks, its loveing stupid.

Dragon was 1000000x better than this. It makes me feel bad for asian people.

I don't think the name needs to have a growling effect.. I think if you want that effect put growl in front of it.

New players will think we are retarded for having a pet name like that. love old players think so.

Edit:

So pet names won't be capitalized anymore?

What-the-love?

That is just as dumb as the Rreign. Species should be capitalized, animal species are capitalized.

So since Subeta is moving away from the real world are we going to stop using American English on this site now? Fine lets use Pig Latin instead that sounds like a goshdarn better idea.
So, refering to the name change as 'fucking stupid' (I have to have filters on at all given times) and the site as 'retarded' is more acceptable than to tell people the change will stick? I haven't seen any staff members insult anyone.

I'm perhaps snarky, but I haven't insulted anyone, nor will I. For me, it's unacceptable.


I won't be coming back to this thread. ;)
Rah
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Rah »

I vote for a name pronunciation page. I rather fancy the idea of pronouncing my pets names. Although, being English, I do believe I say things differently anyway! I know I don't pronounce subeta the same way that Keith does - and he cannot make me! Mwah hahaha!

(I remember when I found out that 'Hermione' was pronounced 'Her-my-oh-nee' instead of 'Her-me-own' and it took me two more books of forcing myself to say 'Her-my-oh-nee' out loud every time the name appeared to get used to saying it properly!)
Sianach
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Sianach »

So being called 'hive minded' isn't insulting to you?

I for one was offended by that, and to come from the OWNER no less. That's great public relations.
Sarivonne
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Sarivonne »

In a week, most of this will end up blowing over and become forgotten by the general populous. And a few people remember it but just grumble about it for a long time. I'm sure staff knows this and isn't too worried about changing it. I agree though, changing it at a more appropriate time would have been nicer. It'd still be nice to change the name to Reign.
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Huggles »

Iggy, I have no idea what you're quoting and where it came from. Are those from the Subeta forums? If so, then it would be irrelevant, even if they were made by Ncers as they weren't made here. If not, see sentence one.

I also do not like nor appreciate the drama of these last few pages. It is true that this is where we go to vent. That doesn't mean anyone here gets a free ticket to be acutely nasty just because you can, which is directed to no one in particular and everyone. In essence, we air our dirty laundry in public because we ain't got nothing to sell. If we had our own pet site, you'd certainly see a difference in what's said and to whom. But, we don't so you can't and have only our word to take that it'd be no less than we'd expect from Subeta or Neopets or anyone else. *shrug*

Generally, if I feel something matters enough to me to warrant change, I would post on Subeta directly. That's where I'm not a mod, but a user and where I believe my opinion can be objectively assessed in that context. Yes, there are a lot of jerks and yes-men on the forums or comments, but that's not a good enough excuse to express your opinion. Say what you have to say, then leave or ignore the rest. I don't think it's worth posting everyday conversations there, so I post here instead.

I do think that there are a lot of mixed messages being sent out by the staff when they post here. I do think that Luxe, for example, does try to limit herself to "this is just me speaking", but it's hard to say that about everyone. Staff posts things here that they wouldn't post on Subeta, and it's rarely seems to be anything that isn't directly related to them being staff. No one really comes here and talks about that weird thing their cat ate, or their favorite movie, or beating Maleria in a fight. A few of the artists have popped in to add some insight to why something was drawn this way or that, which usually brings little to no drama, but that's about it. So, it's hard to see the separation when, with a few exceptions, it almost always comes down to staff posting as staff as to why something was done by staff that we in particular didn't like. I'd like to assume it's simply because most people on Subeta proper like X, and the staff is genuinely curious why a there's a bunch of people over yonder who don't and want to know if there's some way to change our minds. But somehow, it just ends up in a mess.
Sarivonne
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Sarivonne »

I've posted quite a few times on the news for these issues, and it's so frustrating when half the time you're bombarded with those who think staff can do no wrong and one should 'shut up' about it. Thing is, users on staff are humans just like the rest of us. They are normal human beings who make mistakes as well.

Users don't always agree with what staff does, and users like to understand why a change is being made. Users aren't demanding for something like lowering prices on CS items or wanting to have 10 layers per section on has or something outrageous. Most of them simply wanted to know why. Why was the name changed, why are the species lowered cased. Sometimes we got good answers, sometimes we got bad ones, sometimes we got defensive answers, etc etc.

I've been on many pet sites over the years, and subeta has a bar raised. People say subeta is a small community, but it's really not. Subeta has thousands of users online daily. They should expect more criticism and demand for knowledge. For smaller sites, it's different because the base is so small, there's sometimes a lack of people who want to actually critique something. But on subeta, there's hundreds of people who want to give an opinion.

I'm rambling, just saying, subeta staff shouldn't be surprised when there's a lot of people who don't agree on something. If people want to complain, let them complain. Then if you want, complain about complainers to yourselves. I know when I work, I need to deal with some pretty jerky customers, but you need to put the customer's needs as a priority no matter how crazy, and if you need to point them somewhere else for help, so be it.
klaatu99
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by klaatu99 »

Ok, after slogging thru seven pages on this thread, I thought I'd throw my two silvers in. Overall, I've been pretty ambivilant about most changes that have been made to subeta. Some of them have made me shake my head and wonder about the reasoning behind them, but the new name for the Dragon (which really was needed) just looks silly and/or lazy, especially with the non capitalized first letter. Rreign not only looks lazy, the whole "well this language (welsh) uses double consanants, so lets throw a random extra consanant onto an existing word to make a *new* word" makes you (that's a collective you, not a specific you) look......well, for lack of a better word, ignorant. Perhaps a little more brainstorming over the new name should have been in order.

Hell, in the time it's taken me to write this post, I've come up with better alternatives than rreign. Kygar, Morez (pronounced more-ehz), Cryton.....hell, even Nogard would have been better than rreign. Or if nothing else, look to some of the lesser spoken languages for cool sounding/looking words. All of my pets (and most of their minions) were named this way.

And if anyone reading this feels that this is a BAWWW post,or that I'm part of a group-think/hive-mind, you are cordially invited to snog my posterior.

edit: I posed the question about the name rreign to some friends on another site, none of whom are on subeta and know nothing about subeta, these are a couple of the responses I got:
-Drop the first r, I think. Unless it's meant to be said, otherwise, it looks odd. Like Lloyd.
-It really looks like a typo of the word 'reign'. That's the first thing that comes to my mind. Kind of distracting.
-It does look a little odd. Mebbe footnote it as 'pronounced as rr' or something. I dunno. I'd have made up some ludicrous, silly name for them myself.
-thinks it's perhaps a little too close to the existing word

My point here is, even non-subetans think rreign isn't a good choice.
Last edited by klaatu99 on 15 Nov 2008 01:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Madge
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Re: Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

Post by Madge »

I agree with everybody else about everything that has been said.
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