Computer specs help?

[Cranberry]

Hey guys! I'm (finally!) getting a new desktop PC later this month, and I'm going to have the guys at the (very good) local shop build it for me. I'm going to talk to them next week, and I'm sure they'll be able to design a good system, but I'd like to have an idea of what to ask for before I go (and maybe an idea of what I should expect, price-wise). I know that I want Windows 7 (64-bit, definitely), and if I can afford it I'd like to have a Blu-ray drive and a widescreen HD monitor, although these aren't completely necessary. I know for sure that I want this specific sound card (I already bought good speakers to go with it -- Swans M10; every review says they sound amazing), and I'll order it online myself if they can't get it for me. Aside from that, I don't really know what I should ask for.

I'm not a gamer, really; I mostly just play Neo games. Like I said, I'd like to watch HD video on it, and other than that I'll mostly just be using it for the Internet, watching some downloaded or streaming TV and movies, listening to music, and editing photos --nothing major. However, I want more computer than I need, you know what I mean? I want it to be good for a long time without having to upgrade, and I don't mind paying more now to get that. So, anyone have an idea of what I should be looking for in terms of RAM (besides "lots" ), video card, processor, stuff like that? And do any of these four cases (one, two, three, four) sound like they'd work for the type of system I want, and/or does anyone know anything about their quality? (Also, yes, I love glowy blue things; my TV speakers' subwoofer looks like this!)

Thanks so much to anyone who can help. I've been reading about all this stuff online for the past couple days, and there's just so much to know about every component!

[Madge]

When it comes to buying RAM, think of - think of the biggest number you can think of, and then multiply it by eight. Because RAM only comes in bunches of eight. You want to know why that is? Because inside your computer, the RAM is manipulated by tiny elves that only have eight fingers.

All I can really say is make sure you get something that's too big to throw out the window, though with the way computers are going these days you might want to move into a basement suite with tiny windows now.

[/adding nothing useful]

Seriously, I got a new computer in April and I got one of my nerdier friends to pick out all the parts for me. I have a Thermaltake M9 case with blue glowy things though and that's pretty cool so I totally get why you'd want that. Cases generally work for everything, because they're, y'know, cases. You'd only run into trouble if you had like 10 hard drives and need a lot of room for them or something.

Finally, you might want to look into getting an external hard drive if you don't have one already - if you have friends who have similar taste in TV/Movies to you, you can bring it along when you go visit them and do some file sharing. I've got 1TB and it's great - keep all my TV shows (100+GB of Stargate!!) on it and will bring it along and people are happy to get what I've got and vice versa.

oooh! And err on the side of more USB ports. I got this new one thinking "I'll never use all those USB ports" and I still do use them. I mean, it's no big deal since I can unplug one thing I'm not using at the time and plug something new in, but it's always nice to just have your phone charger plugged in 24/7 even if you only charge your phone every couplea days.

[Cranberry]

I thought a case was just a case, but I've been reading way too many nit-picky reviews and now I'm all confused about how many fans I should have and how big of a tower I need and whether a Firewire or eSATA port on the front is more useful and blah blah blah. Honestly, as far as looks go, this case is my favorite, but it only has two fans, while all four of the ones from my first post have three or more (and it doesn't have a firewire port like the number one case I linked in my first post, nor dust covers on the fans like number two), so I don't know if it would be suitable. Who knew picking a case would be this difficult?

[Wingsrising]

Finally, you might want to look into getting an external hard drive if you don't have one already - if you have friends who have similar taste in TV/Movies to you, you can bring it along when you go visit them and do some file sharing. I've got 1TB and it's great - keep all my TV shows (100+GB of Stargate!!) on it and will bring it along and people are happy to get what I've got and vice versa.

Idle comment one: I love external drives, but remember they fail at a much higher rate than internal drives. (They're slower, too.) Smaller ones are usually more stable. I have an external drive in an Antec case with a little cooling fan in it, which allegedly cuts the failure rate significantly. Can't testify to that one way or the other, though.

If you want to move files around, make sure you get a little portable external powered via USB, as opposed to the big externals that require wall warts. (I have some of each.)

oooh! And err on the side of more USB ports. I got this new one thinking "I'll never use all those USB ports" and I still do use them. I mean, it's no big deal since I can unplug one thing I'm not using at the time and plug something new in, but it's always nice to just have your phone charger plugged in 24/7 even if you only charge your phone every couplea days.

Or you can just get a USB hub. They're cheap. And on ThinkGeek you can get one shaped like Darth Vader. What's not to like?

I'm a bad one to ask for advice -- I went all laptop, all the time, and am not planning to go back. (I just hope that Diablo 3 will run on the laptop I'm planning to buy this spring...) Remember that whatever you get will be obsolete in a year whatever happens.

EDIT: To be frank, it sound like you can do everything you want to do on a $500 Dell. So I don't know that I'd obsess TOO much about the case. (Though I understand the impulse, I recently spent a few hours reading reviews of tire performance, when I mostly drive around Ames, IA and generally forget to check my inflation anyway...) Seriously, though, it doesn't sound like you'll be doing anything to stress the fan.

[Cranberry]

Eww, Dell. I never buy from places like that... I've seen too many people have problems with their Dells and HPs and whatnot, and I'd hate to have to send my computer away if something went wrong. The guys at my local shop are excellent -- even when my brother's computer had major issues after his warranty expired (he never cleans the damn thing), they fixed it for him for next-to-nothing. The first computer I bought from them lasted me from 1999-2006 (and it didn't die; it was just way underpowered by 2006, heh), and my current comp is a second-hand one originally built by them in like 2004 (and upgraded once), and it's still running fine, albeit slowly on flash-heavy sites. They use really good parts. I'm just being very picky this time around, probably much pickier than I should be... but like I said, I want to get more than I actually need so that I can go a while without upgrading.

[Jessi]

Cran, I don't think Wingsrising was saying to get a Dell xD I just think she was saying that since you could do what you want to do on a $500 dell, you should be fine going with the case you want even though it only has two fans!

I have nothing more to add, sadly, since I happen to really like HPs and er... that's what my current computer is! *pets it*

[Wingsrising]

Yup, that's what I was saying. Don't stress the case.

Though, for the record, both the universities I've worked at have used exclusively Dells for office computers, so presumably they have some redeeming value. Neither me nor my coworkers ever had a problem with them. (Also, my laptop is a 4.5 year old HP.)

Generally I stress computer purchases, too, but when it came time to set up my lab and office, I told the department IT guy, "Buy 8 computers." And lo, there were 8 computers. (Dells, of course.) I gave no thought to it whatsoever and the computers have been perfectly serviceable.

I'll have to remember that when it comes time to stress over buying my next laptop!

[Miguel]

We use Antec cases at work: specifically the 300, the build quality is fantastic (mind you we're moving computers around a lot, so cases with very little flex are very important to us). I'd recommend the 900 too - a lot of the others look a lot flimsier. Number of fans is not everything, case layout and fan placement will make a much bigger difference to the internal case temperature (and component longevity) and noise levels. Look for one fan in the front, one in the rear, a PSU placed at the bottom of the case (allowing heat to escape out of the top, not into the PSU), and don't get side panel fans, they interfere with the airflow too much (you should be looking for an approximate airflow from front bottom to rear top. Get bigger fans (120mm rather than 80mm) and they'll run slower for the same airflow, meaning less noise and at a lower frequency and pitch, which is kinder on the ears.

Anyway, enough about cases

RAM - 4GB will last you for a long time, 8GB is serious overkill right now. With the right motherboard and RAM, you should be able to get 4GB with two upgrade slots free to bump it up to 8GB later. Make sure you get a system with DDR3, DDR2 is on the way out.

For non-gaming, you want a processor with more cores instead of fast but fewer cores. each core is its own processor and more of them means you can run more programs (net browser, videos, antivirus...) without any of them slowing down. Intel or AMD both work sufficiently well, I'd let price be your guide there (hint: AMD are cheaper ).

Video card - you've said yourself you're not playing intensive games on this, so there's little point spending lots of money on it. Anything from Intel (4000 or higher), ATi (4000 or higher), or NVidia (200 or higher) will easily suffice (protip - the first digit is the generation of graphics processor, the remaining numbers are a comparative rating of performance within that generation - anything above 500/50 is really overkill for light gaming, and up to that will still handle more intensive games, just at a reduced detail level).

Hard drive - Personally I'd recommend a high capacity internal hard drive, which you then back up to a separate external hard drive periodically. Hard drives are fallible - and you don't realise how much you like having your old music and photos until you can't get them back.

You are correct to get a 64bit OS with any more than 3GB RAM, don't let anyone talk you out of that (32 bit OS are getting cheaper to get them off the shelves, but cannot use more than 3.5GB of RAM).

That sound card is pretty fantastic, possibly overkill but I'm no audiophile, so I can't really comment too much on that Certainly you will need good speakers to get the most from it, which you have done.

I hope all of this helps - to substantiate my recommendations, I work in an ICT research laboratory, so I do know what I'm talking about. Feel free to PM me or reply here if I'm being too techy/too patronising/you want more or different advice.

[Cranberry]

Thanks so much, Miguel! You're definitely not being too techy/patronizing; your advice is great.

I like the Antec cases, and I also like the NZXT Tempest (seems to be inspired by the Antec ones), but the ones I like the look of have so many fans and I really think that's overkill. My favorite case, looks-wise, is the XION Vantage. It only has two fans (front and back), but they're 120mm ones, and am I right in thinking that if I get a good-quality power supply unit and also a video card with its own little fan, I shouldn't run into any overheating issues with that case? It is a bit of a flimsier case, but I'm not going to be moving it around, not will it be in an area where it's likely to be hit/knocked over. It's also got easy-to-open sides, which would be nice for cleaning.

I'm definitely not going to be talked out of the 64-bit OS; don't worry about that! I did a lot of reading about 32 vs 64 and I'm positive I want to go with the 64-bit. I want lots of RAM (I know I don't need it, but I want it), so I'm thinking I'll go for the 8GB (or more, depending on how much they charge me) right off the bat so I don't have to worry about upgrading it later. RAM's pretty cheap, so why not.

Processor -- dual-core or quad-core? I know next-to-nothing about processors. Or hard drives, but I trust the guys at the shop to pick out the processor/hard drive/motherboard/whatever based on the other stuff I want. And this is why I'm getting them to build it for me instead of attempting to do it myself.

The sound card is almost definitely overkill, but it's only $192 CDN and I don't mind spending that much for really awesome-quality sound. It's my one real indulgence in this computer, haha.

I've been looking at the ATI graphics cards. A lot of the newer ones seem to have their own sound chip to drive sound through the HDMI. This concerns me a little because obviously I want my sound coming from that ASUS sound card. Would it be as simple as going into the graphics card's menu and disabling the sound there? Do you think there would be any sync issues if I used the graphics card just for video and the sound card for the sound? I really have no clue how all of that works!

(P.S. You know what's really funny? My current computer, which I bought second-hand for a couple hundred dollars and intended to use as a "temporary" comp (several years ago, heh), only has an AMD Duron 1.29 GHz processor and 224 MB of RAM. I know. A netbook would seem like a speed demon to me! I am not even going to know what to do with my new computer when I get it. )

[Miguel]

Yay, I helped!

Case - really, it's not worth worrying too much about which - pick the one you like the best, then just try to make sure the airflow is approximately bottom-front to top-back. (the fans should have a little arrow to denote airflow direction through it). Two 120mm fans will be enough to keep the system cool, though be wary of running them at less than full speed (somefans have speed controller knobs), particularly in the summer months. I'm erring on the side of caution here, PCs are remarkably resilient to high temperatures, although compenent longevity will be affected eventually. Given how you'll look at the case far more then you'll move it, that should dictate your top priority

RAM - if you want 8GB, then go for it, but more than that will be very expensive - most motherboards only have 4 slots, and single memory sticks (not USB, RAM) bigger than 2GB are veeeeeery expensive (6x the price or more).

Processor - usually for a similar price, you can get a slow quad core or fast dual core. Go for the slower quad, it will be better at multitasking. Further to what I said before, avoid Intel Core 2 (Duo or Quad), it's based on old tech that is being phased out very quickly and won't be upgradable later.

Hard drive - the only seriously important spec of that to consider is the capacity in GB. Everyone has a story about "I had a brand $x hard drive and it died!!11eleventyone", and if you ask 5 people you're likely to get 5 different brand $xs. Sciencetip: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data"

I've not yet played with using third-party sound cards as well as onboard with the Xonar or new ATI stuff, however - in the worst case, you can disable anything other than the Xonar in the Device manager (which will mean Windows will only "see" the Xonar and it will have to use it for sound). However, this will almost certainly preclude using HDMI for sound as well as video. With that said, such good speakers and sound card deserve better than the compressed signal over HDMI, so you'd be better using dedicated cables from the sound card.

Graphics - At the top end, ATI is definitely king right now (5000 series is go!). Mid-range, performance vs price seems to be comparable, as are drivers (some months you get a good release, some months you get a bad one). Go for whichever floats your boat

A point I forgot to make before - consider the power supply too. A bad (read: cheap) power supply will cause instability, and potentially if/when it dies, probably sooner than a quality brand name PSU, is more likely to take more system components with it). I swear by Antec as a trusted brand myself, though a lot of my uni friends with similar knowledge also recommend OCZ and Coolermaster. You'll notice an increase in price, but it's worth paying. Also consider the rated power it claims to supply - for what you have in mind, 600W will easily be plenty. Don't get oversold on a crazy 1kW monster for it to sit idle most of the time, and don't get a 300W supply which will be running flat out either!

[Cranberry]

Thanks, that all sounds great! I appreciate all of your advice, and it's especially nice to get tips about power supply wattage (I'd been looking at available ones and had no idea what to go for), DDR3 vs. DDR2 RAM and the fact that Intel Core 2 is being phased out -- good little things to know.

I am still so confused by video cards! Picking a model is hard enough, and then you've got all the different manufacturers to choose from. A friend told me that MSI is good, so I think I might go with this one. The 4670 seems to have good reviews, and I think that's a decent price... but like I said, I really have no idea. Do I even need the 1GB version, or would the 512 MB version ($5 cheaper) be better for my needs? And then there's the HIS version, with a "dual slot" cooler, which also has great reviews. How does anyone ever decide!?

I'll probably go down to the shop and talk to the guys tomorrow, so I'll post the specs they come up with here and see what you think of them -- I trust these guys to build good computers, but it's always nice to have a second opinion.

EDIT: Talked to the shop owner/technician for quite a while today! We talked about every piece of the computer and he liked a lot of my picks and suggested some different stuff that he knows is reliable (for example, they use really good 500w power supplies there, and he said I didn't need to go with the 600w). He tried to talk me out of my sound card because I don't really need it, which I know, so we'll see. He'll give me a 1 TB hard drive (wow I do not need that much space) for the price of a 500 GB because he ran out of 500s, haha, and they already go with DDR3 RAM there. I forget a lot of what we talked about, but he took my list of specs and scribbled notes all over it, so I'm sure he'll include everything in the quote he's going to e-mail me in a couple days.

[Cranberry]

Sorry for the double post, but it's been a couple days and I'm adding a bunch of info. I got my estimate from the shop today. Here are the specs:

Custom System - Gaming System w/ 23" LCD Monitor

NZXT M59 Classic Series - Mid Tower Case (no PS) - 2x 120mm Case Fans,
Bottom Mount Power Supply

Enermax 500W Tomahawk Power Supply (highly reliable and stable)

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Quad Core Processor AM3 3.4Ghz 8Mb
Cache 140Watts 45nm Retail Box CPU

Gigabyte GA-MA785GT-UD3H AMD785G ATX AM3 2PCI-E DDR3 Video
Sound GLAN CrossFireX HDMI Motherboard

(2) Kingston 4GB DDR3 1333Mhz Kit (2x 2GB DDR3 1333Mhz RAM) (8GB Total
Memory)

Western Digital 1TB 3.5' SATA2 7200rpm Hard Drive

Sapphire Radeon HD5750 PCI-E 1G DDR5 PCIe (HD/DP/2DVI) Video Card

LG GBC-H20L SATA Black 6X BD-R/2X BD-RE BLU-RAY Reader 16X
DVD+RW/-RW OEM

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (OEM)

Corel Word Perfect X4 Office Suite (Wordprocessor, Spreadsheet, Presentation) -
OEM (free)

Logitech Internet 350 Desktop Keyboard/Mouse (USB)

LG W2343T-PF 23" Wide LCD - 5ms, 30000:1 Contrast

In Store Setup of Desktop (included in price) - Setup system. Install drivers and
updates. Configure with software. Install Antivirus and any other included
software or purchased software. ($100 value)

2 Years Parts and Labor Warranty against manufacturers defects.

The total cost, with taxes and labor and everything, is $1,963.64. That's in Canadian dollars... which actually means it's very close to what it would cost in USD right now anyway, so nevermind. That's about what I was expecting (I set a limit of $2000 for myself), so that's all right. However, that doesn't include the sound card, which he assures me I don't need but which (upon further review-reading) I do actually want. He says he can get it for $239.99 plus taxes (ouch), but I found an online seller that I could get it from for $202.65 including taxes and shipping... I wonder if it's worth it.

Any comments/suggestions? All I can think of right off the top of my head is that the case has a side fan, which I don't really like (I guess he couldn't get the case I wanted, or maybe didn't like it -- I'll have to ask him about that), and I'm not sure I want such a large monitor (my LCD HDTV is only 22 inches and will be sitting close to this monitor. I don't want it to feel inferior, haha).

[AngharadTy]

"Install Antivirus"? Does that mean Norton? If so, you should tell them to go put that in some hole that is dark and dirty and smelly. Install AVG or Avast! or the brand new Microsoft Security Essentials, which is what I switched to and I love it 100%. Even more than I loved AVG. Much more than I loved AVG.

If you're going for a high-end gaming machine, the 7200 rpm hard drive will be a bottleneck in speed (e.g., loading times). You could go with one of the 150 GB 10,000 rpm VelociRaptors from Western Digital and get a second internal or external drive just for storage. Solid state drives are even faster, but the cost-to-gigabyte ratio is still bad right now.

[Cranberry]

I think they use AVG at the shop (they installed it on the last two machines I got from there), or perhaps Kaspersky nowadays (one of the clerks sold it to a lady while I was in the shop), although I prefer Avira, myself. I'll ask him about that.

I'm not actually going to game on it (I'm only going to watch Blu-rays, listen to music and do normal Internet stuff -- I just want a better machine than I need, heh), so would the hard drive still be an issue in that case? I can definitely talk to him about a smaller, better one -- I don't need 1TB of space, not at all.

[AngharadTy]

Probably not, then, no. I know it made a huge difference to me--it sucks a lot to be waiting on a loading screen while Derek is off shooting zombies already--but it shouldn't affect watching HD movies.