Ron Paul

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thelonetiel
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by thelonetiel »

Reading the OnTheIssues site for Ron Paul, his education stance scares me a bit. His drug stance looks good (industrial hemp FTW) but I'd rather have illegal weed than creationism, prayer and more abstinence only education. Not to mention he voted to abolish the Federal Department of Education, which is a scary thing to contemplate.

My favorite candidate is Bill Richardson, of course, since he's my state's governor. Outside of New Mexico though, I don't think he's viewed as a possible candidate, but I can still dream. He's a good guy, does a lot of foreign policy work and has made NM one of the more progressive states.

I do think it is a bit ridiculous to say "I don't know who I'm voting for yet" because of course you don't, the election is still a year away. There's an absurd amount of campaigning for the election being so far away, is there any precedent for this? I've only followed the last two presidential elections, but this definitely seems abnormal. And like we'll eliminate a lot of candidates too early in the running.

I need to remember to keep tabs on people, I can actually vote in the next election. Theoretically, if I don't run into red tape for turning 18 a few days before the election.
Wingsrising
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by Wingsrising »

Dunno. Richardson does seem to have some real points in his favor (and he's had some great commercials, someone posted them on one of my knitting forums) but he appears to have a hard-line stance on drugs, crime, and in particular the death penalty that disturbs me.

Also, he apparently thinks that homosexuality is a choice, which is just kooky regardless of what his other credentials in the area are.

Yes, this does seem like the campaigning has been starting earlier and heavier than in previous elections.

As far as who I'm voting for... wait a minute, do I get a choice? Someone will get nominated (NC is not one of the states whose primary matters) and then I'll vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is. I don't see that I really get much of a say in the matter beyond Democrat vs Republican, and I'll take any of the Democrats over any of the Republicans.
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by Twofold Black »

For anyone from Forn Parts in the audience, Wingsrising has just summed up why our two-party system blows goats.
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bonecrivain
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by bonecrivain »

I have to admit that I haven't paid any attention to the Republican candidates this time around. I'm still hoping that Obama will win the primaries, but I'm not counting on that happening. I agree, though, that any Democrat right now seems like the best option; I want the Republicans out of office. It's still difficult to believe that we've let Bush stick around for as long as he has.
EofS
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by EofS »

That site wrote:You have a good match with Hillary Clinton. You should consider voting for Hillary Clinton unless you disapprove of <b>his</b> character and background.
*Snerk*

I apparently match Hillary Clinton and Dennis Kucinich exactly the same amount. I think my non-existent vote will go to Clinton because Kucinich is a complete bugger to spell. I'll bet he never got write in votes!

As for what I think about Ron Paul... apparently I agree with him 25%, joint top of the Republican candidates. He manages an impressive 44% agreement with me on social policy, but his economic ones fill my European socialist ways with terror.

I don't like the way that when you're analysing results you suddenly find out that you've answered questions you didn't know were asked. Plus I had to go "neutral" on one because I found out that by choosing support I was going against something I strongly believe in. And yet by choosing oppose I'd be going against the general policy I believe in...
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Wingsrising
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by Wingsrising »

My match is apparently best with Kucinich, too. Then comes two people I've never really heard much about (Chris Dodd, Mike Gravel) followed by Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Biden, and Richardson. Then Ron Paul, then the other Republican candidates.

Doesn't matter, it's going to be either Clinton or Obama.
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FaerieInGrey
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by FaerieInGrey »

I don't think Obama will get the primary, either (I blaspheme! I will be kicked right out of the club!)

I canvass in New Hampshire pretty often, but there is tons of support for Clinton. Massachusetts primary isn't an important one, but I think New Hampshire is literally first and thus very important. I can say almost beyond benefit of a doubt that it will go Clinton, which I'm disappointed about.

I don't like her health plan. It's modeled partially after our* new one, which sucks and is just forcing us** to buy insurance that we can't afford, or be heavily fined. If we could afford it, we would have bought it already, thanks...

*the state of Massachusetts
**me, Jay, the other poor people in MA that don't qualify for free healthcare for some reason
oogabooga
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by oogabooga »

Coming at this from a completely different point of view to most of you... ;)

My dad likes Ron Paul a lot. He (my dad) has very libertarian leanings, and Paul is practically a libertarian (I suspect one reason he's running as a Republican is so he actually has a chance of getting elected; see above re: two-party system). I'm a little more apathetic (also, I haven't been paying much attention to the issues recently). I'm all for states' rights, though, at least the idealist side of me. The realist side says states haven't really been autonomous for ages and it's not worth sacrificing other issues for the sake of idealism.
Zap
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by Zap »

Poor Libertarians, they never get any of the spotlight. =P

He actually ran for president in 1988 as the Libertarian nominee, but managed less than 1% of the popular vote, so I'm sure he learned something from that.

He has, however, been a Republican for all his terms as a congressman.
Phibby
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by Phibby »

Ron Paul will never get my vote, mainly because of this:
Ron Paul wrote:We condemn, of course, the Roe v. Wade, and we should get rid of Roe v. Wade ... The only issue that counts is whether or not the fetus is legal and human and deserves respect and deserves the protection of the law ... But I would suggest to you that in the last 100 years, and especially since Roe v. Wade, we have lost the respect that we need for life and liberty, and I believe that is the reason our country now is in jeopardy ...
Which pretty much goes against all of my beliefs regarding abortion. And some might think it's shallow? closed-minded? of me to not support a candidate based mostly on one or two issues, but when we disagree so vehemently, there's just no way I can vote for him and feel right with myself.

Also, this (from December 2003) makes me shiver. It's not really a rarity for me to disagree with nearly every single word in an editorial, especially with a Republican and/or Conservative editorial, but rarely do I disagree with something so much that I get such a visceral reaction with said disagreement. Maybe it's because with a lot of Republican and/or Conservative pieces like this I can laugh at its ridiculousness (see: Ann Coulter) or shrug it off. Maybe some of Ron Paul's speeches or editorials hit so much harder with me because I continually see him getting support from people who usually don't consider themselves to be Republican and/or Conservative, unlike other politicians or pundits who might say the same thing. Of course, that might just be a personal problem, but I don't know.

I still don't know who I want to be voting for in 2008 (though it's safe to say it's not Ron Paul, heh). I initially liked Obama and still like him now, but I'm not sure I'd say he's my top choice. Clinton...yeah, I'd vote for her if she gets the Democratic nomination, but I certainly don't agree with her on everything, particularly when it comes to "violent" video games (so much ugh). I'm in a sordid love-hate relationship with Edwards; he'll say something I agree with (or his wife will say something I agree with - why is she not running for president?) and then follow it up with something that makes me facepalm. None of the Republicans will get my vote.

But like some of you, I'm in a state where my vote really doesn't mean anything anyway, so yeah. :P
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by AngharadTy »

I am afraid that Clinton will get the Dem spot, and I'm also baffled as to why she has so much support. She seems to me to be the typical politician-type; she hardly ever actually says anything. She's mastered the technique of BS, appeasing everyone while answering no one. (And she recently played the female card--"wah they're mean to me cause I'm a chick." Can't respect that.) Plus, as Phibby says, violent video games are half of what I play (the other half being... erm... cute...), so anyone who frowns on that makes me snarl. On the plus side, I do agree with a lot of her stances, when she's actually pinned down and has answered, but I just do not like her as a person, at all.
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by Fjorab_Teke »

Egad, Phibby. Well, he still fares better in my views than the other Repubs, but like I said I'm still voting Democratic because all the potential Dem runners rank higher for me in all the "who should I vote for?" type info-sites.

As for a certain line in that "war against Christmas" piece, it pretty much says that Christians are governed by their religion's morals and thus don't need the ruling of a secular government to keep them in check. "HAH!" I say, in a really cynical tone. MOST of the more intelligent, truer Christians are nice like that. But some of the ickiest, foulest, MEANEST people are "all about God," from hate-spewing preachers to thugs who'll beat people up for a buck or two and some general dirty-minded creeps in between.

And THAT is one of the reasons I, as a Christian in an odd way, support separation of church and state, which is being lost in the quagmire of conservative and Republican rules. 10 Commandments (at least the moral ones), yes. Love Thy Neighbor, yes. Wage wars and general hatred against anyone who isn't a straight white male of your preferred denomination and thus deny them basic human rights, HELL NO.
Illuen
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by Illuen »

Wingsrising wrote:The problem with making abortion legal in some states but not others is primarily that it's great for women in California and the Northeast and screws over women in more conservative states who want an abortion but can't afford to travel to somewhere it's legal.
Which in turn leads to back alley clinics and home abortions, both of which are ungodly dangerous, not that the lives of the women in question are important to people (I've heard a heartbreaking amount of people say that a woman deserves to die if she wants an abortion). When we have the rise in abortion related deaths, we'll be told that it is because the chilluns are sexing it up more nowadays, which leads to more money wasted on useless abstinence only sex education, so when the teenagers have sex like every other generation of teenagers in the history of the universe, they don't know how to properly put on a condom (although it is pretty in movies or on the telly, tearing the package open with your teeth is NOT a safe practice, kiddies) or believe some of the ridiculous rumors about condoms and their safety that people love to throw around. Yay for the ensuing uprise of STDs, unwanted pregnancies and AIDS in teenagers?

Abortion is one of those issues that really stings for me, as I've always felt that it is a decision that women should be able to make for themselves.

As for Ron Paul, he doesn't look too bad when compared to other Republicans, but like most here, he's far below many Democrats for my vote (although if I did have to vote Republican, I would probably go with Gulianni).
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by Jessi »

I just wanted to comment on what Will wrote, because I just had a conversation similar to this a few days ago, with the girls at work. We were discussing what we learned in sex-ed in school, which I took first in I believe 6th grade and again in 9th - or at least I took health class and they had 'sex ed' parts, especially my freshman year of high school. And we learned everything - we learned about periods (which I'd had for years already), we learned about erections, we learned about STDs, we watched a video of a woman giving birth, we learned how to put on condoms, about foreplay - EVERYTHING.

Now, whether or not this helped me become a well-adjusted individual, I can't say, as I'm gay and have never had to use a condom and don't plan on giving birth and won't get an STD :P But I know it was informative, and I know that if I -did- need to know that stuff, even now I'd be able to look back and remember it.

My friend Kelly, on the other hand, went to a Catholic school where their sexed was very limited (basically to practice abstinence), but she did have a rather... amusing story. Before she got married, she and her husband had to do that Catholic pre-marriage crap. And she said they actually had a couple who were saying that this was the most effective form of birth control, at 99.9% effectiveness: Track your periods and your menstrual cycle and plan your intercourse appropriately.

Buh?

This couple also had I think she said seven children, so you can see how well that was working out.

This wandered a little off topic. I guess my point is, that I think sex ed is IMPORTANT in school, all schools, and telling teenagers to just not do it doesn't work. Unfortunately, from talking with my friends, I realized not all moms are as cool as mine and willing to talk with their kids about sex at all. Someone has to.
shaelyn76
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Re: Ron Paul

Post by shaelyn76 »

My husband pulled up the Ron Paul website just the other night and was all excited about him. My husband leans very Libertarian and he saw that a lot of Mr. Paul's views skewed that direction. I find it amusing (in a bad way) that none of his positions on abortion or on separation of church and state were on the website dedicated to him. When I read this thread last night and told my husband to come and look at some of the links you guys had provided, he suddenly had a vast change of opinion.
My husband was raised Baptist and I was raised Mormon. Both of us have left those faiths as adults and he now considers himself agnostic with leanings towards Judaism(he likes some of their foundation beliefs) and I am a Neo-Pagan/Wiccan. Needless to say, we are among those who are "offended" by the continual encroachment of Christianity on every aspect of what should be secular life. We do not want our kids to participate in a Christmas play about Jesus as in our household he is referenced only as a historical figure...not the son of God. There are many more examples, but I won't get into them here.
Then there is the abortion issue. My husband is a huge Pro-Choice guy. He is well aware that he will never have to give up his body for nine months to produce a child and therefore really should have less say in the issue than someone who may face that choice some day. I have been Pro-Choice since I was 15 and realized what it meant to be pro-choice. Anyone who speaks of abortion the way Ron Paul does will never have my vote or my husband's. We believe in freedom of choice and freedom over our own bodies (as most Libertarians do). Mr.Paul may have nice ideas about legalizing drugs and giving back some control to the states themselves, but reading more in depth into his "platform" has scared me off and sent me to a point where I feel the need to actually speak out against him.
Our two party system sucks so hard that it isn't even funny. I don't like parts of what Clinton has to say and I don't think any of the other Dems really have much of a chance against her. So I guess I will be voting anti-Republican instead of pro-whichever candidate I feel is best like so many others. I just really hope that my state doesn't take its stupid pills AGAIN and vote red. (I live in Missouri where Bush has held sway for far too long). At this point(and for the last few years actually) I have been so disillusioned by our voting system(does the Electoral College really make a damn bit of sense in a society where literally every vote could and should be counted?no) and by our politicians as a whole that I become almost angry anymore every time politics are brought up. I feel powerless to change things and I fear for my children's future in our country. Oh, and it makes perfect sense to vote for a candidate based on only a couple of their stances. If you feel strongly about certain issues, then you should vote accordingly....at least that is how I feel.
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