Election 2008!

[WisteriaLynx]

I would like to punch both of them. >:(

Ugh at proposition 8. I hope there's a good, legal, plausible way for it to be challenged. Ugh, nothing like people who feel a need to put their own religious beliefs into secular law.

You'd really think people would eventually pull their heads out of their rears over this sort of thing (to this day, I love this button a boy had on his backpack in high school: "Against Gay Marriages? Don't Have One!"), but apparently, not....

[Usul_Princess]

We had that similar (annoyingly vague commercials) ban up here in 2006. (Prop 2)). It's only sad that people voted "no" because the very informative TV told them to. I'm Pro-gay marriage, and I didn't get my registration card in time, but I wanted to vote "yes" because I violently disagree with artificial insemination among single people or unmarried couples....(Yes this is related...)

....Soo, "Yes" on Prop 2, because same sex couples obviously can't procreate, and I get very annoyed with the fact that gay couples get denied even regular marriage rights. (including adopting already existing children.) While I think it's exceptionally extreme to bring an inseminated child into the world simply because it's biological, you can't in the same breath make it difficult for couples (orientation aside) not be able to adopt any one of millions of unwanted kids who would gladly go to a loving home. I feel like most people use insemination as a last resort to have a child. (Either because they refuse to adopt, or they've been denied over and over again to do so.) There are couples who are in love, want to get married, and would prefer adopting over insemination, but the morality brigade just HAS to butt in and try to take that right away from them.

Take of it what you will. That's just my opinion.

[Huggles]

I don't personally want to have kids, so I'm defnitely biased, but the lengths people will go to just to have a biological child instead of adoption is baffling. I can understand when the government prevents you from adopting a child and I know the system is far from perfect, but why otherwise? It may be cliche, but there are too many people on this planet and too many children without a home. If you're capable of raising a child in a safe and loving home, then why exactly does it matter who's vagina it came out of? There was a case where a girl was under like a 6-way custody battle. A man donated sperm, a woman donated an egg, another woman was a surrogate, another couple was the adoptive family, and then somehow the biological grandparents got in on it and they all wanted to keep the child. Who do you chose? I had a human health and anatomy teacher spend 10 years of what they themselves would describe as hell trying to conceive a biological child when they could have and eventually did adopt. And then there's people who will adopt, but only if it's an infant because...because what? I just don't understand. I mean, I know the reasons people give, but I just don't buy them.

I spontaneously burst into tears about the bans at work today. Me. Huggles. It was completely bizzarre and surreal since I'm not at all outwardly emotional. Don't tell anyone.

[Usul_Princess]

If you're capable of raising a child in a safe and loving home, then why exactly does it matter who's vagina it came out of?......... And then there's people who will adopt, but only if it's an infant because...because what? I just don't understand. I mean, I know the reasons people give, but I just don't buy them.

Thank you Huggles, I knew you'd understand. *luffs*

I've wanted to grow up adopting children instead of popping them out. I'm slowly getting Andrew to warm up to the idea of adopting later in life. He has his heart set on having a biological child, and I can't convince him (right now anyway) that he's convinced himself he'd love a child less if it's not his seed. When my mom worked in CPS, she said biracial children wouldn't get adopted out, but their full white siblings would because they can't fit in better in their new family. My next door neighbors adopted biological biracial siblings, and they're white male/black female interracial with no children of their own. I personally thought the idea was grand, and have liked it ever since. I feel like in that particular scenario, I could make them feel both wanted and most comfortable.

But I'm glad I'm not alone on that adoption > insemination note.

[Joey]

I'm terribly bummed about 8. There's still hope since it's being fought in courts and stuff, but it depresses me to know there's so many hate filled people in my state.

I think the other measures I was passionate about went favorably though. Stopping animal cruelty and no on abortion notification. Also J passed, which gives my school money.

[Jessi]

School money is always good xD

The two big local issues here in Lawrence - the taxes I mentioned earlier to keep our public transportation going AND to expand it - both passed, which was a huge deal to me - even if I don't use the public transportation, heh. It's such a vital part of our city, however, and so many people rely on it, I would have hated to see it disappear over what turns out to be like, a 3/10ths of a percent tax raise.

[bonecrivain]

Yeah, other than 8, everything in California pretty much went the way I voted. Honestly, I was surprised that the parental notification proposition didn't pass. I'd assumed that anti-gay rights people would also support anything that made it more difficult to get an abortion. Both issues tend to attract lots of religious fanatics, sigh. But I suppose people saw reason with that one.

I'm seeing Facebook statuses like "___ ___ walked around with a silly grin on her face all day," which would totally be me if Prop 8 just...hadn't passed. Gah. I'm torn between being so hopeful and excited, and feeling like we just took a giant step backward. We got the presidency right, and that's huge and awesome and so amazing. But why is gay marriage even being debated still? I don't understand.

I signed this, but I don't think online petitions actually do anything. I've been trying to figure out what I can do, but it looks like the best bet right now is to wait and hope that the lawsuits being put forward will change something.

"I never would have thought in my life I would see a constitution changed to take rights away." -Mayor Gavin Newsom

[Saturn]

Figured you all might like to see this. At least a small glimmer of hope...

lol it seems weird that I'm more concerned about issues in a state on the other side of the country that I've never even been to than issues in my own home state. Considering I live in one of those tiny unimportant states that barely even matters in elections anyway and never gets to decide on anything important, though, it's not too unusual I guess.

[Monkeyguy]

I'm seeing Facebook statuses like "___ ___ walked around with a silly grin on her face all day,"

I'm seeing stuff like, "______ is disappointed in America. You wanted change...you'll get it."

It makes me a little sick to think that these closed minded people are my friends. And then there are the multitude of happy statuses being posted which make me smile.

Figured you all might like to see this. At least a small glimmer of hope...

Please let there be a similar clause in Florida's constitution!!!

[bonecrivain]

Oh, I'm seeing those kinds of statuses too, although I'm mostly trying to ignore them. Let them grumble...they've lost. Really, what's so terrifying about change? Did we want to freeze-frame life in 1776?

[Jessi]

I'm a member of the Human Rights Campaign, and they just sent out a very, very lovely letter to their members telling them that although all this anti-gay voting yesterday was obviously a hard blow, not to get discouraged. The letter ended beautifully, and I really wanted to share it here. I hope it helps everyone feel a little bit of hope. I know I can tell you guys that these words are certainly true for me, and they touched me deeply. I really hope they help everyone here feel a little bit of hope. Don't get discouraged yet, everyone! Times are changing.

(I feel like I should add they don't mention California because HRC is refusing to call the California votes until every_single_vote is counted)

Yesterday, an unfortunate majority of voters stood with the most extreme and negative elements of society to deny the rights of loving and committed gay and lesbian couples. But it’s not the first time that has happened to us, and it won’t be the last. It doesn’t change the fact that we are married. It doesn’t change the fact that we have families. Make no mistake. We are bowed, but not discouraged. We are sad, but not disheartened. We grieve, but not as those who are without hope.

Today we will mourn the losses in Florida, Arizona and Arkansas, but tomorrow let's resolve to lift one another up, and continue our march forward.

Remember, our marriages didn’t begin with a decision of the court, and they will not end with a vote of the people.

[covet]

If you're capable of raising a child in a safe and loving home, then why exactly does it matter who's vagina it came out of?......... And then there's people who will adopt, but only if it's an infant because...because what? I just don't understand. I mean, I know the reasons people give, but I just don't buy them.

Thank you Huggles, I knew you'd understand. *luffs*

I've wanted to grow up adopting children instead of popping them out. I'm slowly getting Andrew to warm up to the idea of adopting later in life. He has his heart set on having a biological child, and I can't convince him (right now anyway) that he's convinced himself he'd love a child less if it's not his seed. When my mom worked in CPS, she said biracial children wouldn't get adopted out, but their full white siblings would because they can't fit in better in their new family. My next door neighbors adopted biological biracial siblings, and they're white male/black female interracial with no children of their own. I personally thought the idea was grand, and have liked it ever since. I feel like in that particular scenario, I could make them feel both wanted and most comfortable.

But I'm glad I'm not alone on that adoption > insemination note.

It's lovely that you've always wanted to adopt. I've always thought adoption was great and noble thing - particularly adopting older children who may have had traumatic pasts and need someone with immense patience to deal with the behavioral or mental issues that may crop up. Giving any child a home is a wonderful thing.

Adoption isn't an easy process, either. Particularly here in the UK, there are a raft of assessments, paperwork and protocols. Which in many ways are a good thing, but also mean that adopting a child can take years, and many good candidates never get to, or have to go overseas and adopt where the procedure is different.

There are other issues to consider when adopting a child. A child adopted later in life will not have the same bond with you as one raised from an infant. Yes, there can be a wonderful bond, but not the same bond. You'll have missed many of the experiences that mean the world to some people - your child's first words, first steps, so many developmental stages. If you adopt a child with living parents there is always the possibility that they will get in contact later, and for some people that can be a huge hurdle to overcome. What if you hold up unfavourably to the natural mother? Or what if your child has a bad experience in contacting their natural family. You wouldn't have a family disease history if your child got ill. If your child got very ill, there would be no likely genetic match in your family.

All lives have their hurdles, and a biological child is no better or worse than an adopted one, but I think it takes a huge amount of self confidence to become an adoptive mother.

This is a personal issue, and one I've researched heavily into, because I'd like to have kids. I have, however, been very ill for a very long time, and my prospects of having children naturally are low. I find this painfully hard to bear.

I come from a large family. We all look alike, and one of my great pleasures is being able to look in the mirror and see the traces of my family there. My grandfather died a few years ago, but there is something of him in all of us. I have my father's hair and my mothers eyes. These things are unbeliveably important to me, and it's something I'd like to be able to share with my children, when and if I have them.

I would love to be altruistic enough that all I cared about was giving someone a good home. I'm sorry, it's not. Perhaps it will come to that for me, and I know I could come to love an adopted child as my own, but there would be things I would miss, too. If it comes to it, and I can afford it, I would certainly consider artificial insemination, whether I was single or unmarried, so long as I felt I had reached a place in life where I could support a child.

I don't think there is any possible reason to be against someone in a stable place in life trying artificial insemination in order to have a biological child. When we have schoolkids getting pregnant and becoming single mothers, and women in their early middle age having one night stands to become pregnant, it is absurd to take the chance away from someone willing to spend money and put themselves through treatment, several times in many cases, because having a child is that important to them. The child will obviously be loved. How can there be a problem with letting someone have that choice?

Because of my illness, I've lost a lot of my hair. At some point in the future, I may have medical help with that, too. I really don't see any problem with using the medical aid availiable to us to be able to have something that most other people can have naturally.

I also strongly disagree on the need for someone to be married to have children. Marriage is hardly a stable, solid environment in today's society. Plenty of couple live together without the need to get married, and many are single or divorced through circumstances they have no control over. These people can still be good parents - they're the majority of families today.


Anyway, totally off topic, but hi there touched nerve. I also think the gay marriage bans suck, just to be on point for a second. I believe in responsible choice, in almost all things. There we go.

[AngharadTy]

IVF is, in some cases, for 1-3 chances, cheaper than adoption.

Genes do matter to some people. They got the money and a womb? Have at it.

Doesn't mean adoption is any less wonderful. But adoption it is not the easier route. It's not even the obviously more moral route, for the reasons Covet said and more. (The abuse rates in adoption scenarios are sad.)

Both adoption and IVF should be a personal choice, not something the state has a say in. For anyone. Gay, straight, single, married.... If it's legal for Jane to go to John's place and get knocked up, even though she's single, then of course she should be able to go to the doctor and get knocked up, safely and with less chance of John being forced to pay child support.

[Hawk]

Finally! North Carolina's results are in! Obama won by about 14,000 votes (around 0.4%). Go North Carolina!

That's 364 electoral votes for Obama. Woo!

But it really is too bad about Prop 8.

[Fjorab_Teke]

I voted early, on Wednesday two weeks ago.

The reason? I was to attend a work-related conference that began on election day. Silly event planners. But the convention was lovely, and I had fun even though I had to watch election results all alone in a hotel room because I don't care to get deep into politics with strangers who I know are awesome people despite differences we may or may not have.

I tend to get VERY rambly on this topic. And I was incredibly emotional, even more than I have been during the debates.

My state - the geography is gorgeous, but there are SO MANY conservative people hiding in them-thar hills. I have lots of friends and family who are very liberal, but that's barely a dent in TN's redness. My husband, who is in Iraq (thanks a LOT Bushie!), sent in his absentee hopefully in time, even though there was well enough to swallow his too.

I have to admit McCain's speech (and attitude during that speech) was amazing. I think he's a great man, a true hero, and a dedicated patriot. I just happen to disagree with his (and OMG Palin's) ideas!

OBAMA!
Words CANNOT DESCRIBE the massive relief of HOPE for me with his election!! I was choked up, almost to tears, throughout a good part of it. Seeing Jesse Jackson's face drenched in tears was probably the most poignant image, with a close second being the massive cheering EVERYWHERE (except in McCain's booing audience).

There WAS one Democrat I didn't vote for, and he didn't have a chance here anyway. Dare I say it, the Republican in that position is actually a fairly decent fellow. I knew he would get re-elected because Republicans AND Democrats like him fairly well, for the most part. BUT - I saw a VERY green liberal independent on the ticket, who I remembered and really liked, so I had to make sure he saw that at least ONE person thinks he's a great representative. Woohoo Chris Lugo!

Stupid bans on tolerance and progress!! Again, my beloved beautiful state is home to some of those hateful bigots who voted against it quite a while back too.