Lots of site stuff to give your opinion about

[Joeno]

I've got some new things that have been set live or will be set live at some time in the near future or will need some opinions on before I can continue coding.

First of all, both the FAQ and links page will probably be linked to in the footer by the time you need this. The former partially because it's handy, and partially because since Rainbowpool's demise (what happened there anyway?) I've been getting some questions repeated. If you spot any grammar or spelling mistakes I need to fix (I make them occassionally), any errors in my answers, any questions I ought to add, or whatever, more, please tell me.
A similar thing for links, and also because people will have another place to look at when they ask "Will you add petpets to the database?"

Next, I'm currently coding up the last few moderating bits for Labray logs. Although I'm currently being a bit lazy about it, I hope to have it finished soon. To perform some testing, and to get a nice set of data entered before it is officially released, I'd like to get a few logs up and running. If you're interested, let me know, and if you've already been keeping a log, it might be possible to import it automatically - just let me know.

Third, news. As much as anything else, Sam's original blog entries on Neocolours were one of the things that kept it a site worth visiting to me, as it brought a certain attitude to the site that (in my opinion) is still present in our forums and what sets it apart: the critical eye to Neopets developments, a more 'mature' way of reporting things and the special feel that legal letters in large purple Comic Sans brings to a site.
I've been doing a few bits of work on this, but before I continue, I'd like to hear the vox populi on this topic.
The first point: What should be added as news items? New colours and revamps are obvious, with the opinions of those posting and/or some comments from the forums. I can see the colour predictions for pet days being possible as well, another popular thing from days past. But would we want more? I'd like to use it for major site announcements as well, which shouldn't be a problem either. But what more? I personally don't see the point in announcing every caption contest image, site spotlight winner, or new item, but one or two posts covering how a major plot plays out, or about other major events on Neopets would not seem problematic to me either. Of course, the question remains where to draw the line. Opinions are welcome.
Next, who will get to post? One of the main things when developing stuff for NC is that I want to keep it low maintenance, especially for myself, and keep it possible for others to maintain it if I wouldn't have the time. This would go for News as well - it will certainly be possible for others to write updates. First of all, how will these people be determined? Preferably, I'd like some people with some good writing skills, who can entertain people while making their point. Any suggestions on how to decide it? Perhaps something similar to WW can be done - those interested write an item on a new colour, the pieces are posted without names added to it, and then we use whatever system to decide who would be it. Or you could trust my judgement. Or we could use any other reasonable suggestion.
Second, what should be done with individual posts? Something like first come first serve, with the first to post getting to give his opinion on the whatever, or possibly just with people discussing who gets to write. Or it would be possible to have people edit news items to add their opinions, but an additional amount of trust would be required there from people being able to post news. Then again, comments would be welcome as well.
And coming to comments: I could write my own system for it. It'd be somewhat limited. I'd have to do some work on it. It would take time. I have a better solution - it would probably be possible to automatically generate new forum topics for each news item, so the handling of comments can be handled much easier. It would, however, mean that I'd have to actually start writing to the forum database, as well as requiring a new forum to be created. I'm not sure how much of a problem people would consider it to be.

Last, as mentioned in the Other Games forum, a Subeta version of Neocolours has been uploaded. This actually was easier than I thought it would be - taking at most two hours of coding, maybe three. Two questions. In what way would people prefer we'd treat this? Maintenance, like for the main NC site, is minimal. Although I may want to add a few more features to it as well, the basics work well and do so without my intervention, and so doesn't take up much more than a few server cycles - far less than our normal pages. But further, do we want to treat it as some sort of 'subsite', with a link from the main page or similar, or as a separate site with similar URL, but one that doesn't get linked from or imposes on the main site? Meh, I don't have a clear idea about it yet, but thoughts are welcome.
Second, this was easier than I thought it would be and presumably what it might look like. Because of this ease, and considering the things that have been achieved with the German version. If a similar thing could happen for other sites and/or things, I could probably look into it (although I'd still like to have some interest in the matter, due to that laziness of mine).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to hear your opinions, and remember that if you ever have comments, suggestions, or whatever, feel free to suggest them. I won't always be able to implement them immediately, and may have reasons not do so at all, but if you don't tell me, you can be certain I'll never know about it.

[Kantark]

Regarding the Subeta sub-site, I think it would be best as a separate URL (I don't know, Subetacolours or something), but retain the style of Neocolours and a link to NC and the forum.

First time I'd seen the German version - how long has that been running?

[AngharadTy]

I feel fairly left out in having no clue whatsoever that there was a German version of NC, on its own domain and run by someone I don't recognize.

Other than that...

Once upon a time, Sam had us do tryouts for the news, but nothing ever came of it. I remember really enjoying Cheese's writeups, but that's all. Something like that might be nice, again. Only, definitely without names, as you say.

[FaerieInGrey]

I also seem to have missed the memo on the German.

To agree with Ty, I liked the news tryouts. Maybe I'd even try out this time, as I was still feeling too "new" last time.

I'm much interested in this "lab log" and would buy a lab for this purpose.

[oogabooga]

I don't have thoughts on most of that, except to say I'd love to have news posts again. I agree that those were a major interest point of the site. Probably the best way to choose people is like you suggested, anonymous sample posts and then we vote. Open it up for new applications every now and then, maybe.

As someone who hasn't yet been sucked into the Subeta craze I'd prefer that it be treated as a separate site. I don't know that it needs a new domain name to itself, but I don't think you should link to it from the front page - whether you want it to link back to the front page, I don't care.

The main reason I'm posting, though, is to say I have about five months' worth of lab results from three labs that I'd be willing to give you for the lab log thing. I'm not currently recording (or zapping) but it's all in an Excel sheet in a consistent format that shouldn't be too hard to import. And I could always start again if you're in need of that.

[rebelheart]

I had no idea there was a german site. But it reminded my why I never play Neo in German, their translations and german names for items and other stuff are just horrible. Which has nothing to do with that site, however, nice layout, and I'm sure german kids who don't speak english and play Neo in german will appreciate it. Who's that Adam? Come out and introduce yourself ;D

I'm torn on the blog entries thing. All the other fansites have a news feature, so I don't see how ours would be different, other than commenting on stuff with an attitude, but that is hard to keep up, especially if it's not one person writing but a group. People can already comment when they vote for a colour, and say their part in the forum.

Subeta: I don't know what people find about it, the art is not my cup of tea and since I'm already wasting enough time of my life with Neo I intend to stay as far away from it as possible. SO I'm with Rachel here, please keep it separate.

Since you also asked for suggestions: I would love a feature that lets us see, for example, all new colours released in march 2005, or the five latest faerie pets/ nimmo colours or all new colours of the last six weeks. So basically, an additional "time function" to what we have now. I have no idea if this can technically be done, I'm just wishing here

[Twofold Black]

If it's on there, the feature will be coming.. once.

This is peculiar enough to me that I'm not certain whether it's an error or if I am in fact just reading it incorrectly.

If you're interested, let me know, and if you've already been keeping a log, it might be possible to import it automatically - just let me know.

I've been keeping logs on all my lab rays since I first got them, I think, and will continue to do so indefinitely. There are holes in a couple of them, but I'd be happy to contribute the ones that are sound. I keep my log in a text file, but in a very regular format that it should be possible to write a script to read (I know I could do it in the scripting languages I know, but they aren't applicable here). I don't have, and don't plan to have, any permanent lab rats, however.

[Kamil]

I too have missed the memo on the German site - do we have any idea who is running the thing? I want to feel all possessive of the name and demand they stop calling it that at once -- and yet, I suppose I have no right to do so. So I guess I'll sit over here in the corner and feel discombobulated. T.T

I'd love it if you'd link the suBeta site from the main page, as it'd make it much simpler to navigate to and from - and anyone who doesn't want to use that link . . . well, they don't have to, do they? =D

The news postings will be wonderful to have again, And what you and Ty said on the without names bit.

Thanks again, Joeno, your hard work is very much appreciated.

[Huggles]

German? Wait, what? Is this some other person or is Adam Korski your super secret real world identity? If it is indeed not you, and you just happen to like wearing a cape and leotard because they're comfy, I'm all for a rampage. We went through so much crap trying to decide if we should still use the name, that I find someone else doing so without our knowledge inherently offensive.

Subeta—I think it works best as a subsite of Neocolours. First, Subetacolours is a stupid name. Second, Neocolours is versatile enough where the name doesn't exclusively apply to Neopets. I think if we could find sufficient funds to persuade Jazzy to make another banner with Subetapets in the background instead of Neopets, that would suffice. However, I wouldn't mind a text link to the Subeta color thingy on the front page.

I'm not sure how I think the comments should work. I do miss seeing Sam's comments about a certain color, and then telling him that he must have had his eyes pecked out by chickens in the forum thread. But, it's weird not having a singular Fearless Leader. I know I certainly don't try as hard to amuse anyone but myself nowdays, and I don't even bother commenting on most colorfils. Still, I miss the <a href="http://www.meepitfiles.com/">Neopian Commentary</a>, and their style of articles, and I wouldn't mind us having a few similar spotlighted posts every now and then.

[AngharadTy]

The only thing I'd want to ask about the news commentary is could we please, please leave grarkenwhatever out of it? It's fine on an individual thread, I still don't like it, but it's an inside joke, and that's always neat. But not on the news posts.

[Huggles]

Well, duh. If we're going to go through the trouble of making separate news posts, saying only grarkenstompfles would defeat the purpose. It's not like it's mentioned much, if at all, nowadays anyway.





grarkenstompfles

[Trick]

I'm also boggling at the German Neocolours thing x_x

Also, I thought Tiel was working on a subeta colours site as a pet project but maybe I got my wires crossed.

[Illuen]

I'm also boggling at the German Neocolours thing x_x

Also, I thought Tiel was working on a subeta colours site as a pet project but maybe I got my wires crossed.

Tiel was, last I talked to her. Don't know if she stopped because of this or not.

I'm withholding comment on Germancolours until there is more information about it, and I have something or someone to focus my anger at, but I don't like it, at all. I think that a decision like that, if one was indeed made, should of been made by the entire forum.

As for the pet commentary applications, I'd love to comment. I'd also think it would be good if we had comments/commentary on big news items on the thing. I just don't want it to turn into solely a newspost type of thing. I think that it should be the descrition of whomever is writing the news as to what they feel is important enough to use.

Thirdly, I never liked the word grarkenstompfles, it always seemed so forced, like someone wanted a memorable word. It's just funky (in the bad way) and a little sad

[Wingsrising]

I just want to know why the German version looks prettier than our version.

I also feel sheepish because some time ago I proposed collected data on the lab ray and never got off my ass to do it. I would still be able to get off my ass to do data analysis on it if the data is available in a downloadable fashion, since the data analysis is the easy and (to me) the interesting part.

I have no real opinion on the news posts one way or the other. I enjoyed reading them back in the day, but I'm also fine with their absence.

I'd sort of like a small link to the Subeta site on the main site, otherwise I'll never be able to find it (and probably no one else will, either). I wouldn't want it taking over the site, either, but a small link I think would be OK. Having links to the Subeta stuff hasn't hurt PPT any.

Er....grarkenstompfles? This is apparently a VERY in in-joke since I've never heard it.

[Joeno]

Aargh now don't get too angry... Time to try some damage control on the German Neocolours thing. I thought I still had the logs for this around, but they seem to have been lost in a recent harddrive crash, so I'll be going from memory here...

Basically, some time ago, I was approached by Adam on whether I'd mind sharing (part of) the NC code at the time so that he could translate it and offer a German version of the site. I had some doubts about it and put it off for a while, but eventuall created a zip-file with the relevant files. It's not a real problem for me - I have been considering making the code open source anyway and if appropriate credit is given (as it has in this case) there's no real big deal for me. He also offered to perhaps create a new layout or two for our site (I recall someone mentioning they liked that one) as possible additional incentive.

The name came up sometime later. I recall that he brought up the subject of having bought the domain then. I recall that we had a discussion about it, but in the end it didn't come up as a major concern. I did mention how it was that we worked and what the community's attitude in general was, but stupidly didn't discuss it with anyone. This might have been related to not noticing anyone online on any messenger, but while I intended to follow up on it, I never did, and the issue became less important as it all became arranged by then.

If you want to be angry at anyone, blame me, because I made an error in my judgement. Things overwhelmed me, I kept putting things off until I half forgot them and I didn't expect it'd be this big a deal, considering the links to here, the similar goals, and the way we took over the name.

Now, on to some other issues:

The Subeta issue opinions are varied, so I won't say anything more on that. As for Tiel working on such a site - I was not aware that such a thing was a going on, so that's why I didn't take that into account.

I've written down the names for those interested in running labray logs, I'll get that resolved some time Soon. Excel files should be fairly easy to import. For those wanting to try their own hand at doing a bit of coding, the relevant table definitions are:

CREATE TABLE `labray_main` (id INT PRIMARY KEY NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, userid INT NOT NULL, name VARCHAR(20), petname TINYTEXT, description BLOB, start_pet VARCHAR(11), now_pet VARCHAR(11), start_colour VARCHAR(11), now_colour VARCHAR(11), start_atk INT, now_atk INT, start_def INT, now_def INT, start_agi INT, now_agi INT, start_lvl INT, now_lvl INT, start_hp INT, now_hp INT, start_gender VARCHAR(8), now_gender VARCHAR(8), last_changetype INT COMMENT 'See lab_entry', last_modifier TINYTEXT, last_comment TINYTEXT) COMMENT='This lists the available labrays';
CREATE TABLE `labray_entry` (id INT PRIMARY KEY NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, logid INT NOT NULL, date DATE NOT NULL, outsidelabray BOOL, changetype INT COMMENT '0 Nothing happens 1 Clrchange 2 ClrNPetchange 3 Atk 4 Def 5 Agi 6 Lvl 7 HP 8 Gender change', modifier TINYTEXT COMMENT 'Either modifier, new gender, clrname or CLR PET', comment TINYTEXT) COMMENT='Specific entries for labrays'

The idea of news applications seems to be fairly popular, so I'll look into arranging some things for that Soon as well.

I would love a feature that lets us see, for example, all new colours released in march 2005, or the five latest faerie pets/ nimmo colours or all new colours of the last six weeks. So basically, an additional "time function" to what we have now.

All new colours in a month should be fairly easy to do, as should all new colours of the last six weeks. I've had a vaguely similar feature request before, and it's on the list (and its entry now expanded) and I hope to get around to it some time after the current new things are done. As for the five last colours of a certain species, or the other way around, I've been thinking about adding an option for ordering a list of pets by rating, and can do so for dates as well.

This is peculiar enough to me that I'm not certain whether it's an error or if I am in fact just reading it incorrectly.

I've improved that sentence.

As for Grarkenstompfles - he is probably the closest to a mascot that we have, too.

Ehmm, yeah, so I'll go and crawl back under my rock now..