Subconscious labels

[Usul_Princess]

I was reading an internet news paper when I came across one of those opinion articles, and I just stared at the article for about 4 or 5 minutes:

Is it just me?

The article itself is pretty run of the mill. People get snotty and selective about who they dorm with for reasons of their own. But it's not the article I'm posting about --It's the title.

Ask Amy: Son doesn't want gay as his college roommate


At first I thought the title was an incomplete sentence or a typo, because I read "gay" as a disambiguation from the student's sexual orientation, and I thought they were talking about something else like style or flamboyance. I didn't realize that the word was solely being used to describe the student. Something about the way it's written made me feel taken aback. They sucked the personification out of that title, and I found the wording fairly offensive. Sure this is nothing new, but have you ever realized when someone describes a situation or tells a story that doesn't define the speaker how they distance themselves by lack of detail of that other person? It's not important to express the personality, age, (in this case they can't use names) all you need to know is that this person is gay, and that seems to be enough. I notice scenarios in dialouge happen like this all the time.

For example:

"I loved that political speech given by that one girl who sits next to you. I can't think of her name."
-"The Asian girl with the glasses?"
"Yeah, her! I love that Asian girl's opinions."

*conversation continues*

I'm sure it's a subconscious thing that a lot of the time goes unnoticed, but does lack of detail ever annoy or bother you? If something significant about the person has already been described, it's not important enough to descibe them any further. This really bothers me especially when someone is well-liked, or known, and they're only referred to as an adjective.

I'm assuming "Amy" wrote the header, and even though she came to the defense of "the gay" in the article, it minimized the impact of her opinion.

This topic totally came out of left field, but it was such a distraction that I felt the need to post it. How does adjective-only descriptions of people make you feel? Thoughts?

[Silver Link]

I'm not sure about the title, I'm thinking it may be a typo or something


I know what you mean. Sometimes you don't know a thing about a person and their ethnicity or sexual orientation just clicks so that's all you know them by but using that as an excessive adjective is annoying and sometimes offensive. I'm Jewish and although I'm not religious, I'm proud of who I am. However, using the word "Jew" as an adjective riles me up. I play World of Warcraft and there are plenty of times where I've heard "Wow, what a Jew move" or "You're such a Jew." I'm like, wtf, do you really know what you're saying? I mean, it's mostly due to ignorance and they probably don't know a Jewish person is in the vicinity but they should know better. Not saying I'm not guilty of saying stuff like it but it still sucks to hear it either way

[Wingsrising]

I don't think the columnists write the headlines, actually.

[AngharadTy]

Columnists (anyone who writes an article, really) don't generally write headlines. Sometimes they can make suggestions, but it's usually an editorial decision.

"Gay" is a noun. I think it's often a bit on the derogatory side, in usage, if not definition. ("If instead of human blood, you find a deadly corrosive acid... you've got a gay!")

And calling someone "Asian" is... an identifier? Is it better to call them "kinda sorta dark-skinned with black hair and brown eyes that kind of tilt up"? I think that's even worse, as if "Asian" were a dirty word.

It's all in the tone and context. If you say, "Oh, she's Asian," dismissively, you're a racist. If you say, "What's the name of the Asian girl who sits next to you in class?" then the person you're asking knows what you mean and you haven't gone on and on about what she looks like without ever even glancing on something that might have possibly maybe been offensive to someone somewhere.

I guess what I'm getting at is that, of course, sometimes, being identified so bluntly is offensive. But it's not always. Avoiding identifying people by whatever traits they have is just political correctness, which can too easily get out of hand. If you're talking to someone, ask them. (E.g., "Do you prefer 'I am autistic' or 'I am a person with autism'? I've heard arguments for and against both.") If you're talking about them, be aware of your own intentions and don't dismiss someone because of something they can't change.

[lavender]

I personally didn't have a problem with the article's title, but I see your point.

Anyone read the comments to that article? Some are hilarious!

And that's NOT absolutely NOT the same as saying " I don't want to room with an Asian". Also phlyfumblr, there are gays ythat try to convert straight people, I know several and they will tell you to your face that is their mission in life, so you obviously need a little more life experience!

Sexuality is much harder to define than gender. You have to go to extraordinary means to change gender, but a little alcohol can change one's sexuality in a matter of minutes.

[Jessi]

Well, as someone who IS gay... the subject doesn't really bother me much. I mean, I think it's poorly worded but I think "Son doesn't want a gay as his college roommate" is just as poor, and "Son doesn't want a gay male/boy/man/etc as his college roommate" isn't much better and is kind of redundant.

On a similar note, I'm Jewish and I make Jewish jokes all the time :P My boss'll tell me "Geez, you're such a Jew" because I have the tenancy to go "Oi!" a lot whenever something happens in a very stereotypical Jew way xD I turn around and call him a douchebag (Really. This is the kind of relationship I have with my boss). I mean, the meaning of things totally depends on the context of how it's said and who is saying it. Saying "That Asian girl next to me in class has interesting opinions!" isn't derogatory or offensive at all... unless you're a total tightwad.

I just think it depends on how people interpret things or how you feel about it. Although I must say, I don't think Silver Link's opinion is really the same thing. There's a difference between someone saying "Wow, that was a Jew move" - where they're using the term "Jew" AS derogatory, or someone saying "That girl next to me in class is Jewish" or "Asian" or "gay" or whatever.

I too was amused by the comments, however, especially everyone saying "What if it was a 17 year old girl being forced to room with a man?!" REALLY? Geez. My dorm room was co-ed in the sense that males and females shared the same living space in the BUILDING. You were NEVER randomly selected to be with someone of the opposite gender - in fact, my college didn't even do this. I had a very close friend who went to University of Michigan, and I know you could CHOOSE to live with someone of the opposite gender if you WANTED to, but they never threw people in together like that. I can't think of a single college that does that. ARGUMENT FAIL, try again.

[Cranberry]

I think there's a difference between saying "that guy is gay" and "that guy is a gay." I find the former not at all offensive, while the latter bothers me a bit. I suppose I prefer to use "gay" as an adjective, like "tall" or "tanned," and not as a noun. Maybe that's because it shows that sexuality is a part of the person -- just something else that describes them -- rather than completely reducing their identity to their sexuality. Or maybe it's just because the vast majority of the people I see using gay as a noun are trying to be offensive -- "the gays are ruining society," "I hope a gay never hits on me," "I wouldn't want my kid rooming with a gay," etc.

I wouldn't find "what's the name of that Asian girl who sits next to you in class?" offensive; nor would I find "what's the name of that gay guy who always argues with the professor?" offensive. But drop the gender and just call them "that Asian" or "that gay," and I would. Does that make sense?

[Usul_Princess]

I think there's a difference between saying "that guy is gay" and "that guy is a gay." I find the former not at all offensive, while the latter bothers me a bit. I suppose I prefer to use "gay" as an adjective, like "tall" or "tanned," and not as a noun. Maybe that's because it shows that sexuality is a part of the person -- just something else that describes them -- rather than completely reducing their identity to their sexuality. Or maybe it's just because the vast majority of the people I see using gay as a noun are trying to be offensive -- "the gays are ruining society," "I hope a gay never hits on me," "I wouldn't want my kid rooming with a gay," etc.

I wouldn't find "what's the name of that Asian girl who sits next to you in class?" offensive; nor would I find "what's the name of that gay guy who always argues with the professor?" offensive. But drop the gender and just call them "that Asian" or "that gay," and I would. Does that make sense?

100% sense. I agree with you the most, actually. There are forms of identification that one would describe to someone so you'd know who they are, but when you take out the fundementals like gender, and make 3rd person is worse. It implies extreme disregard as opposed to just not knowing someone's name.

I should also mention that are many different levels of "offense". Like, when I was in Spanish class, we were put into partners of three for our final group project. We were partnered off by who we sat next to all semester. I was really annoyed that my two partners who had mooched off my effort all semester, had absolutely no idea what my real name (or spanish semester) name was. They just knew me as "the black girl with glasses" for the last 14 weeks. That's feeling "put off", which is a minimal form of offense.

I don't know. 'Offended' is such an abused word, that it loses it's meaning a lot of the time.

[Huggles]

Sexuality is much harder to define than gender. You have to go to extraordinary means to change gender, but a little alcohol can change one's sexuality in a matter of minutes.

Oh bobs. I'm going to have use that somewhere, somehow.