Editorial Time!-split 2/16/09

[EofS]

It's possible the u-turn over trading is because you can now guarantee the transfer. Therefore if the other person doesn't give the pet as arranged then it can be defined as scamming.

It's also possible it's typical TNT though.

[hebdenhippy]

Trading pets? TRADING PETS? Surely this is a mistake, TNT are always claiming that pets are not items, treat 'em with respect etc. So how come it's ok to swap them? No good can come of this.

However, the thing about the petpage application is very good ^^ I always hated how people asked for ridiculous petpage applications, if they love the pet that much, why are they giving it away? Yes, good move by TNT, I think they should post it in the news or something though, so everyone sees it.

[Rainbow Daydreamer]

I always hated how people asked for ridiculous petpage applications, if they love the pet that much, why are they giving it away?

Agree to the first point, what the-? to the second.

[Jessi]

RD - keeping in mind that this answer is based off the average Neopets player, not people who play quite the same way you do - I think hebdenhippy means that most people who want an obsessively huge pet page application go on and on and on about how "This is my special pet/I worked so hard to paint them/I love them so much/they mean so much to me/They're so very important" and yet, are putting them up for adoption - usually using that kind of crap as a reason to demand that they get art, poetry, and huge pet page applications. It seems a little silly to demand a pet page application because the pet is oh-so-special and you love them so very much, yet you're adopting them, usually because you 'lost interest'.

[Usul_Princess]

Yeah. Jessi explained it to a T. I'm really glad that petpage essay nonsense is banned too. I mean, that person isn't gaining anything but an ego inflation just because he feels like he's throwing a bone at you for giving you their expensive pet. NC has been fantastic with no-nonsense quick adoptions like that.

[Huggles]

Oh for the love of Bob. Why not just attach a price option onto pet trades and get it over with? Really. The whole reasoning behind not allowing selling of pets was because you couldn't guarantee either payment or the pet. And in theory, they can now do both. Any answer involving the make believe play aspect of the site is BS. News flash! *gasp* You can buy and sell pets in real life. The horror.

[Rainbow Daydreamer]

"Why not just attach a price option onto pet trades and get it over with?"

That'd create some sort of fictional objective scale on which some pets were somehow "better" than others, which is irresponsible, ridiculous and against the spirit of the site (and how would you work it out anyway? I happen to think Darigan Xweetoks are hideous, and I'm sure a lot of people share my opinion. But Darigan is a "good" colour...) And it'd encourage people who might once have been responsible foster parents to care more about the amount of money an owner can come up with. People who actually care about their pets would become a bit of a minority if you could just sell your Kougra to get her sister's Faerie PB. And unpainted pets with bad names, already overlooked by some of Neopia, would be branded worthless once and for all. It'd be as much work as I could do just to get a pet into the hands of a possible good owner, I couldn't be sure she'd be safe there, and I wouldn't even be able to report people for trying to bribe me.

With respect, Huggles, that is no world I'd like to live in.

Yes, you can buy and sell pets in real life, and you can buy and sell Petpets around the site. Petpets are small things that make random noises and have no distinction of individuality between each other. However you treat them, it's an incontrovertible fact that Neopets are individuals (no two are alike) that talk and have their own opinions ("Get that thing away from me!"). It'd be like selling intelligent aliens that happened to have landed on Earth: while I'm sure some people would buy them, it would be hard to get over the feeling that you were doing something wrong.

Editorial/support form push day, guys. It's the last day before the News updates, so if you haven't got one in yet and you don't like the idea of pet trading, let TNT know now. I've been campaigning to that effect on the Neoboards until 3am last night (good thing three years of being a foster parent and a student has left me flameproof and with flexible sleeping hours).

As for the petpage thing, Jessi, I think I sort of get what you're saying. Right now my only worry is that I'll get quite a lot of applicants for the same pet and have to make the interviews quite convoluted to choose between them-- could someone report me for being "extreme" even though what I'm doing is perfectly legit?

[Jazzy]

I think, though, that with the introduction of pet trading, people already do have a scale worked out as to what pets are worth.

[Seerow]

I have to agree with Huggles. I think attaching the ability to add payment to a trade would save TNT a hell of a lot of headaches and would make a lot of people happy. Yes, I see your point Rainbow Daydreamer and in an ideal Neo world would wish what you say is true, but most of users of Neo don't see pets that way. They see them as a status booster or just pretty pixels to collect, without regard to the pets "feelings". If Johnny over there is trading his Faerie Pteri for a Darigan Xweetok, and someone wants to do that well more power to em and they will both be happy. And if Sally is selling her Tyrannian Ixi for 200k, well that sure beats buying the paint brush. Its a win-win if everyone in the party is happy really.

[Huggles]

Um...no. I did not in any way mean for TNT to put a price on pets. The person selling the pet would pick the selling price, the same as you can for petpets or any other item. You would be the one to decide just how much you pet is worth and whether or not it's morally logical in Neopets' backwards, conflicting, and messed up fictional world would be up to you. Don't like the idea? Don't sell your pets. The only reason pets matter on Neopets, unlike real living creatures, is because of the value placed upon them by their owners.My pets matter, or did, because they belong to me. My friends' pets matter, because they belong to my friends. Take out the human element, and they're worthless.

[Jessi]

Petpets are small things that make random noises and have no distinction of individuality between each other.

Woah, woah. So wait. Are you trying to say that REAL pets have no distinction of individuality from each other, because they're the equivalent of a 'petpet', but since a Neopet is apparently the equivalent of a human (or child, or some such thing), THEY do? I'd like you to spend just ten minutes with my rats, and then try to use that logic, RD. You can't say the thing that makes them different is having 'unique' personalities. Each one of my rats (..and cats, and pigs) have individuality. The petpet is just as important to some people on Neopets as the pet is - I've spent FAR more NP giving my pets petpets than I have painting them, or grooming them or feeding them or any of that crap.

However you treat them, it's an incontrovertible fact that Neopets are individuals (no two are alike) that talk and have their own opinions ("Get that thing away from me!").

They are only as different as YOU make them to be. I'm sorry, but a red kougra sitting abandoned on one account is no different from a red kougra sitting abandoned on another. They are not BORN with personalities and likes and dislikes. You GIVE them that. Maybe the personalities I have for pets I've recently adopted are totally different than the original owner's, but It's up to US to determine what they're like. It's not something magical.

Also, I think you saying they have their own opinions is a little ridiculous when I can put the site in Japanese and suddenly they think that petpet is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It'd be like selling intelligent aliens that happened to have landed on Earth: while I'm sure some people would buy them, it would be hard to get over the feeling that you were doing something wrong.

This is an AWFUL comparison. Believe it or not, REAL animals that people keep as pets are intelligent, and people sell, adopt, and give them away -every single day-. How do you think I got most of my rats? Are you going to say that because they're not sentient, they're not intelligent, and therefor shouldn't be sold? So apparently, selling a Neopet for NP is the equivalent of selling another HUMAN BEING (or something on the same sentient level as one)? Ridiculous.

Huggles is right. Neopets are only as important as people MAKE them to be. Not everyone makes them as important as you. If you want to play that way, that's cool, but you need to realize that 99% of people on Neopets, including nearly everyone else here, does NOT. I do enjoy all of my virtual pets very much, and I've created some wild roleplay and story ideas with them, but in the end do I care about them even a fraction as much as I care about my cats, or my rats, or my friends, or Lindsey? Hell no.

[gomababe]

The only thing I want to see is clearer rules in the interim. Selling pets is still against the site rules, but the rules regarding trading are still a bit vague annd while I don't grudge people using spare FFQs or whatever to get their dream pet while giving someone else a dream pet, some people are blatantly offering nps or items in exchange for a pet because they assume trading= spending NP or giving items, which {for the time being} it isn't.

I personally don't want it to go as far as people being able to do that, but I can see where you and Huggles are coming from Jessi and I totally respect that, I just don't want to see it. If it happens, it happpens though, not much we can do about it really.

I don't think RD meant that she didn't think the animals people keep as pets aren't intellligent though {goodness knows rats and collies are some of the more intelligent specimens out there by my experience}, she just needs to word her point a little more clearly maybe?

[Jessi]

The point seemed worded clearly to me. The part that bothers me is comparing a Neopet - which is, in the end, a virtual pet, a pixel, NOT a sentient object - to a human because they 'feel'. They only feel as much as either you want them to, or as much as the game tells them to ('Oh, this person hasn't fed their pet in a few days, that will trigger their hunger!'). Comparing selling a Neopet to selling a human is... I don't even know if they're words for it.

But the fact that it's not okay because Neopets are 'sentient' (... when they're not) and yet, selling a petpet would be okay because it's 'just the pet' - that's ridiculous logic from any angle. And yes, it ruffles my feathers. A lot.

[Iggy]

Trading should be against the rules, becuase I'm sick of people asking me to swap pets with them.


I don't want your goddamn Christmas Grarrl, moron.




(Yes, I am selfish)

[varii]

So this thread hasn't been used in ages, but it's a continuous subject so I hope this doesn't conflict with the two week bump rule.

Greetings, TNT! We customisers were wondering why the Ficus Tree item is not wearable anymore. It used to be, but then it got turned into a Neohome 2.0 item and now it can't be used in customisation. Is this a glitch, or did someone intentionally change it? ~hoeiva
The Ficus Tree was always supposed to be a Neohomes item, not a customisation item. We are sorry for the confusion.

Then why did they release it for customisation then? With the way they've explained how they upload images for customisation, someone put in a lot of effort to make it wearable. And they announced it. And released it. And then they changed their mind. Ugh. Crack is whack TNT, just say no.

I loved that tree.