Baby Krawk and Lutari

[Jazzy]

I like(?) how this thread illustrates the differences in attitude between Neopets and Subeta. Next time a Subeta pet is released that I don't like, am I allowed to just sit and insult it and not expect to have everyone blow up in my face?

Well, part of it is that people on the Subeta boards are reluctant to criticise artists they know are there. I can guarantee that if Neopets had brought out, say, the Chibi Ruffie, everyone would have said "it's hideous: the eyes are gigantic and its legs are unusable stumps" (sorry to pick on you Rah, but the pet does encapsulate the things people pick on in baby pets). On Subeta, it's adorable. There are a number of things that are guaranteed to get a negative reaction from a lot of people here:
- out of proportion eyes
- simpering, "cute" expressions, particularly on non-cute pets (particularly applies to the Krawk here)
- fists on non-customisable pets
- blurry, difficult-to-see userlookup images
- anything that breaks Boochi/invisible guards for UC pets
- thick lines (mostly not an issue, but here particularly around the Lutari's eye - which again emphasises the gigantic eye)

You can almost do it like a bingo card. I think that's why people don't like these, and with Neopets they say so, even when on Subeta they'd hold their tongue.

[Jessi]

Honestly, I think that's a bit unfair. Plenty of us will say exactly what we don't like about a Subeta pet, whether or not an artist is watching - I know Rah doesn't care if she has pets that we don't like. Hell, my WIFE had a pet that, until recently when it was revamped and fixed, I absolutely loathed - it was one of my least favorite pets on the site, and she knew it. If I don't like a pet on Subeta, I'm going to say so.

Also, although it doesn't always show, Chibi is not necessarily meant to be the same thing as "Baby". Sure, there's "Chibi" pets that look like babies - like the Chibi Mallarchy - but for the most part they are meant to be shrunken down, deformed versions of their 'larger' counterpart - that's what Chibi implies. So stumpy legs, giant eyes on a chibi pet? That's fine. If that was a "Baby" Ruffie, then yes, it would have looked utterly ridiculous.

I don't like these two pets because these two pets are just ugly. It's not just because they have cute overly large eyes (though they do). It's because the Krawk looks like it has recently gotten collagen injections in its lips. And its hair is absolutely ridiculous. The Lutari just looks... silly. In fact, I think the Lutari looks like the better of the two, but it's still bad. I think the biggest thing about the Lutari for me is the bib - I don't SEE it as a bib. I keep glancing at it quickly and wondering why its wearing some elaborate Lost Desert jewelry.

And Alecko... if you don't like a pet released on Subeta, by all means, just SAY so. You wouldn't be the only one. It's happened before. I could certainly dig up a couple of example threads. I can't speak for every artist on Subeta, but I know Lindsey could care less if you say you hate the way a pet looks. It's happened before, and she just shrugs. It's not the end of the world.

[Jazzy]

It's still entirely true that the way people react to pets on this site is different when they know the artists are there. People would say the exact opposite about a pet once they saw there was a Neopets artist around (or start saying "oh, but it's not true that all of them are like this! yours is wonderful!" having just said "all [colour] pets are hideous"). The immediate turnaround would be startling.

[Rah]

I don't know, I've had people here who know me who have no problems in saying what they think about my artwork (good and bad!) and I have no problem in hearing it - I think the only difference with subeta art is that people are more likely to go into detail about what they don't like because there's actually a chance the artists will see the criticisms and take them into consideration in future artworks. (I know have, anyway) With no neopets artists posting here showing us that they care what we think, it seems pointless to elaborate too much on every single thing we find wrong about a pet and so the only thing that comes out is the direct, harsh sounding initial feelings.

I do think if the neopets artists were posting here comments on new neopets would be a lot more verbose, but I don't think people here would be saying the opposite of what they felt! The neocolours community has always struck me as one who says exactly what they think!

[Jazzy]

Yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it - it's a lot easier to just go "raaaaawr stomp" when you know there's no point in actually saying "I dislike the way the shading on the leg looks compared to the belly, and the way the pet isn't looking at us" since it won't be changed. There are very, very few Neopets that have ever been changed after release, and I don't remember any that were changed because of criticism or critique.

(Also, unrelated to this topic, but I'd like to say that I really admire the way you deal with criticism.)

[Huggles]

These are opinions about virtual pet colors. I might put in some moderatorly effort to curb some of the knee-jerk reactions if we were talking about people's real babies. It's a lot easier to change a drawing than it is to buy your poor, bald, baby a toupee.




I'm kidding, of course.


Baby toupees are becoming fairly reasonable in price.

[daisybell]

I think it makes for more interesting reading if people are more specific about what they don't like, rather than simply saying that the art is awful and they hate it. If everyone said "ewww, ugly" and nothing else, by the time you got to the third post you'd probably stop reading.

Didn't one or two artists used to visit NC and post, back in the very old days? IIRC it didn't really work out. The incentive to provide detailed criticism is much greater if you think it will actually have some effect, but then again, if the artists are posting, some people will feel inhibited to say what they really think (especially if it goes against the majority opinion).

My sister could really have used a toupee, she was almost bald until she was nearly three.

[Jax]

I dunno, I think people here are pretty honest about what they think about Subeta pets, I know I am. It doesn't really bother me if the artists are watching since we are normally constructive and say what we don't like ("The leg looks broken"/"Fur too fluffy"/etc) and pretty much no matter what we say is better then some of the news comments @__@

Not to mention, the artists on Subeta seem to react well to it, because they seem really professional about it and wish to improve. With Neopets now, they're insanely limited to what they can and cannot do with pets, and from what I've read, they were insanely vocal about their presence. Very rarely do I ever see Rah or Keshi or Luxe comment on their own pet images, unless they want to correct someone.

Just my two cents of course, I feel if we had the Neo artists now we'd always get "Well we can't do much more/strapped for time/forgot" in response to our crits (though, I'd love to hear the explanation to the Chocolate Elephante)

[Jessi]

I know Shroomie used to post here - even before I was a member - but because pre-customization, some people here were making comments about wanting Shroomie to come back and she told us she found that rather offensive, that her co-workers were just as good of artists and she didn't like people saying that. She posted a couple of times after that, but that was years ago - and I remember Shroomie posting in her livejournal that even she was upset with the way customization turned out. Probably why she hasn't been here since then (I'm not even sure she works for Neopets anymore).

Jazzy (and Rah), I do agree with you there - it is a lot easier to give a full depth critique when you know the artist wants to hear it and is interested in what you have to say. Though I try to do that with both Neopets and Subeta art - though sometimes something is just so ugly I can't really get out coherent thoughts about it xD

[AngharadTy]

I do wonder if peoples judgement is being clouded a little bit by having one half-decent baby always being seen alongside one truly hideous one...Objectively I'd have to say the Krawk is very much on a par with most of the other post conversion babies, if you like babies in general I'd have thought you'd like this Krawk, if you don't like babies then this little critter won't alter that opinion. I'm not really a fan of babies but overall I think the Krawk is pretty cute and nicely detailed. It does somehow look much better naked too, but then since I'm not a fan of the baby clothes I would probably always say that.

The Lutari, on the other hand, is a totally different matter. Stylistically the two babies don't resemble one another at all, and must surely have been drawn by different artists...although calling the person who came up with that Lutari thing an "artist" would be generous. It resembles some form of grotesque road-kill, everything twisted and broken into unnatural positions, the eye is monstrous and sinister, the tail is crooked and has bizarre blocks of colour that don't match the flow of the tail, the legs suggest Polio victim, the bib is asymmetrical and looks ludicrous, and it's not even a nice colour.

Actually, though I seem to be the minority, I think the Krawk is worse. I could possibly get used to the Lutari, because though all its features fall short of what I want in a baby pet, at least they don't fall short by too much. But the Krawk just hurts my eyes--I can't staaaaaand its teeny puckered lips. Or its feet. I love Krawks and I love some baby pets and the combination here I really, really do not love.

[Huggles]

Also, I know I rarely comment on colors I'd rate as ordinary because I have no interest in actually playing Neopets. It usually takes something really good or really bad for me, and a quite a few other people, to respond at all. Then there's everything else everyone else has already mentioned. Some of us have been here long enough to know exactly what so-and-so is thinking when they say such and such, and then forget that not everyone is physic. Basically, I hate the freakishly large eyes and equally freakish but small mouths on both.The krawk has a bobblehead and oh Bob's, that mouth. The lutari's bib looks pasted on and it's the bog standard red versus a softer pastel. In closing, do not want.

[covet]

The neopets artwork used to get some spectacularly in depth detailed critique beck when it was... still artwork. Lengthy threads about every redraw. Since customisation all we have to say is that one colourfill is mildly more or less offensive than the rest. The only art I really appreciate on the site these days shows up in the NC Mall.

[AngharadTy]

That's true; pre-customization, a new colorfill pet didn't generate much discussion here. What can you say other than "gee, that shade of ___ is really great"? With some exceptions, like the brown lenny. It was mostly repose colors that got pages of comments from us. In no small part because happy, sad, angry, defeated, etc. were all different.

[Marah]

I don't like these, I never was a big baby fan (the only baby I would consider is an ogrin.) I know babies have big heads and big eyes, but these two have BIGGG heads and eyes. Seriously, that krawk should topple over. Aside from that the lutari has the horrible fist of doom, this time combined with a foot of doom. (It looks like it could hold something to me.)

the krawk has the tuft of hair that looks like a toupee and also seems slightly cross eyed to me. I like its colour though.

I agree with EofS that a guaranteed boochi shield shouldn't be such an expensive and rare pet. But I think the colour changing re's are just wrong. Basically after all the time playing to save money to get the pet you want, you then can't use it around the site. I have an UC plushie kau, I would love to have her as an active once in awhile, but no way I'm going to. The site is supposed to be about fun and playing with your pixelpets, but after you actually did that, than you can't anymore.

I also think a re: shield might be a good thing. If they would sell that in the NC mall however, I might just actually find it in me to quit.

[ZomgethMew]

Skitty, I *knew* I'd seen a Baby Lutari somewhere! Yours is much better than.. this >> I feel for all the people who had a Krawk as a Boochi shield.. stupid Boochi.

I'm not up for a detailed critique, but these are some of the ugliest post-customization pets I've seen yet o-O;.