Chai and Dragon revamp (+ staff discussion)

[bonecrivain]

In this case, it isn't hanging onto the old, outdated art. It's hanging onto the style and characteristics of the old pets.

And I don't see how creating a well-liked and popular redraw is in any way comparable to a poll.

[AngharadTy]

You can't test a revamp by asking if people like a redraw. That... that just makes no sense. It's okay to add wings to a redraw. Not okay to randomly add wings to a revamp. What the hell.

And why move away from polls? Polls are a <i>good</i> idea. Even if you don't follow them exactly, they make the users feel like they're a part of the process, and that keeps them happy. Even if you're dead set on revamping a pet, use the poll to ask "New Version 1 or New Version 2?" All it takes is a modicum of effort to make your users feel like they hold some importance. Even if they don't.

[painesgrey]

In a way, we did poll the dragon revamp via the galactic dragon. Likewise with the serpenth and paralix. I really don't think we will be using the poll system much anymore as users holding on to old outdated art hinders the site from moving forward and becoming better. Expect more revamps to be piloted in this way.

oh goody.

i hardly think releasing a colour and seeing peoples' reactions counts as a poll, just as i highly doubt that chimaera would have changed her design either way.

holding onto old and outdated artwork? we're not asking that you keep the original artwork, just that you keep with the characteristics that define each pet. i don't think that would hinder site growth in any way.

[Mayhem]

I really don't think we will be using the poll system much anymore as users holding on to old outdated art hinders the site from moving forward and becoming better. Expect more revamps to be piloted in this way.

... So wait, you're saying that taking the time to review what members have to say (polling via a fancy redraw =/= people wanting to change the species as a whole) keeps Subeta from "moving forward and becoming better"? Because last I checked, appreciating and acknowledging member criticism is what makes the site "move forward."

If anything, have at least enough respect to preserve the few characteristics that individualized a certain species from the multiple others that it can be compared to. I'm sure that adding whiskers to the Dragon's new design wouldn't have been such an epic task.

[Sarivonne]

And once again, users are not allowed to vote on whether they like the pet or not? I have to agree, the dragon looks a LOT Like a dragarth now -__- All the dragon pets are beginning to look the same.

The old Dragarth used to look mischievous, now it looks like something you'd find on a saturday morning kiddy show.

The old Magus looked sleek, devious, now it just looks disgruntled and fat (I guess it works since it's 'stone', even if it doesn't look like stone.

The old dragon had a very peaceful look, wise looking. Now it's all MODERNIZED FOR THE TWEENAGERS. TOTALLY RAD. Sorry, that's the feeling I get from it.

I like the chai. And I =THINK= the reason people have less beef with the chai is because the artist stayed true to the way the chai looks but updated it to the subeta style. While whoever did the dragon changed it COMPLETELY. Attitude, added appendages, and then tells users (as seen in older entries) that they know practically nothing about anatomy and dragons. I really don't like how staff acts.

Before they had a poll for everything. Feli had a poll did it not? Or is this artist exempted from crits and polls?

Sorry, I'm rather bitter about all the changes.


Also, I do not like that they just post a revamped version as a galatic pet color and then a day later we have a completely revamped pets.

What happened to changing your style to fit the original?

[bonecrivain]

Part of what makes Subeta distinctive is its high level of user involvement. Once you start moving away from that, you're going to become more and more like any other pet site out there, just with more frequent glitches and downtime.

Currently, I'm willing to forgive Subeta for a lot of things, because the users actually have a pretty strong voice. If that's something that's going to start changing, that doesn't bode well for the site. Getting rid of polls obviously isn't going to make Subeta implode. But I think it's a step in the wrong direction.

[Mayhem]

Part of what makes Subeta distinctive is its high level of user involvement. Once you start moving away from that, you're going to become more and more like any other pet site out there, just with more frequent glitches and downtime.

Currently, I'm willing to forgive Subeta for a lot of things, because the users actually have a pretty strong voice. If that's something that's going to start changing, that doesn't bode well for the site. Getting rid of polls obviously isn't going to make Subeta implode. But I think it's a step in the wrong direction.

I definitely, wholeheartedly agree with this post.

[Sarivonne]

Part of what makes Subeta distinctive is its high level of user involvement. Once you start moving away from that, you're going to become more and more like any other pet site out there, just with more frequent glitches and downtime.

Currently, I'm willing to forgive Subeta for a lot of things, because the users actually have a pretty strong voice. If that's something that's going to start changing, that doesn't bode well for the site. Getting rid of polls obviously isn't going to make Subeta implode. But I think it's a step in the wrong direction.

I definitely, wholeheartedly agree with this post.

I second this.

Sorry. I'll making my post longer. I think that it's good to recieve community feedback. I keep seeing mods saying how they are so used to comments like ours that they just tune us out. There's one thing to tune out negative comments. It's another to tune out possible important feedback. EVERYONE commented on the wings and whiskers yet you DID NOT LISTEN.

[shaelyn76]

so let me get this straight....you release a new color of a pet in a new pose with "updated" art and that is your idea of taking a poll? WTF?! Did you even read the thread made about the dragons in the forums on Subeta? I sure did and almost every poster had the same complaints about the Galactic Dragon(ie: wings, no whiskers,elongated snout, lumpy look/too muscular). Even the comments on the news post were somewhat critical of the Galactic Dragon for the reason stated above. So, no...I don't think that should be a viable replacement for the poll system since you (not you in particular, you as in staff as a whole)ignored every comment that doesn't gush over revamps like they are the best thing since sliced bread. Like painesgrey said, keeping the polls at least gives us the users the feel of participating in the site we love. The polls and the varied artwork were what distinguished Subeta from Neopets for me. The feel that it was a true community where staff actually cared about and listened to the users was such a breath of fresh air after the utter disdain on Neopets. Moving away from polls and posting things like, "get used to it" in a rather harsh manner just moves Subeta closer and closer to Neopets in my opinion...and in case I didn't make it clear, I really didn't like those aspects of Neopets which is why I am there very very seldom anymore.

I'm not trying to be mean or nasty. I'm not even knocking on Chim's art. Some of her stuff is amazing and I love it. I just feel that this dragon revamp was handled very poorly and I do not care for any part of it. As soon as I figure out what I want my pet to be instead of a dragon, she will be getting an elixir and changing to something I can stand to look at.

[shaelyn76]

Please ignore this post.

Mod note: That's nice and all, but do not double post; edit anything additional you want to say into your existing post, please.

[Figment]

Please, do not just quote entire posts while adding nothing but "I agree." Long quotes with no response are annoying and rude. At the very least, please add a sentence of your own opinions and thoughts.

/modhat

Anyway, I'd say something about not polling users being a stupid, stupid idea, but I'm frankly exhausted from a day of work. Okay, nevermind, I will say something: wasn't the demi poll successful? Didn't it help the artist to draw a pet that was as true to the spirit of the original while still making the art new and lovely? Responses to redraw pets =/= poll.

[shaelyn76]

sorry I'm new and that is my only excuse...I'll refrain in future.

[Sarivonne]

I editted mine

Also, Galatic Dragon was released recently, which means that these dragons were probably already done days ago and thus any crits we had probably would have been discarded.

Because if you noticed, EVERYONE had qualms with the wings and lack of whiskers yet nothing was changed? Hmmmm. Shouldn't the artist wait for feedback first then draw the pet? I don't think she could have drawn that in less than a few hours plus get it pass the other artists so quickly? Something smells rotten.

This is how I feel things were orchestrated:

1) Artist makes revamp of pet
2) Pet comes out as new color to get 'feedback' as a way of 'polling' when it feels like all it is is to get users used to this new style and basically accept it.
3) Bring our revamped pet 2 days later


Also, with the demi, there was no final version right away and some features had to be changed. Why not this pet or the dragarth?

[shaelyn76]

I know it is just pixels, but I am upset by this. I took care in choosing which pets to create and what names to give them as well as what colors to make them. Each of my pets has a special meaning to me and I feel like somebody came in and stole one of my pets. Even worse, it feels like they took a pet I cared about and replaced it with some strange ugly creature and they just expect me not to notice or care. What do you guys think of the Galactic Popoko? I'm considering that as the new species for my Dragon. (her name is StarryEyedSurprise so I want to keep either a Twilight or Galactic feel to her)

[Sarivonne]

What do you guys think of the Galactic Popoko? I'm considering that as the new species for my Dragon. (her name is StarryEyedSurprise so I want to keep either a Twilight or Galactic feel to her)

I say go for it I bet it'll look nice and the color will fit!

Just pointing out that the Ruffie is the 6th most popular pet on the site.

And since this revamp, nearly 100 new dragons have been created.

Also, how many have been disowned though? The site is semi down, so I'm better many will be abandoned? You can't gloat when only a few people have even seen the revamp...