Chai and Dragon revamp (+ staff discussion)

[Kamil]

I'm totally uninvested in the drama, because the Chai is so much better and I never liked the old Dragon so I didn't care what happened to its art.

Wings aside, and if the original Dragon had them then it seems to me adding them back should not be such a big deal, especially if that fact is pointed out more often, what I see most people who are mad about the revamp yelling about are the lack of the whiskers. And I get that, I do. I like whiskers on a dragon species myself.

Couldn't whiskers be pastede on yey to the new Dragon? And then might not the screeching calm down a bit?

/hopeful>

Oh! And Keith, I hope you start feeling better soon. What an awful time to be sick. *offers aspirin and chicken soup*

[daisybell]

The revamp was done to be more like the OLD dragon, the original. A lot of pets lost their former vision when they were second-generation revamped, and are being pushed back to how they originally were (the original dragon had wings)

Where are the wings? Those are the old pet images dug up from the wayback machine, mainly, for the page on this site: http://www.neocolours.me.uk/subeta/subetaoldpets.php

Okay, so checkers beat me to it- but wings aside, does it really need such bodybuilder-esque muscles? The pet has changed an awful lot since the older ones. It was a slightly tubby, friendly dragon and now it's got "attitude".

[adi_gallia]

They're the old Dragons right? None of them have wings o_O;

There could be even older Dragons that we don't have the images of?

[Sarivonne]

They're the old Dragons right? None of them have wings o_O;

There could be even older Dragons that we don't have the images of?

But why would dragons have wings after THREE generations did not have wings? O_o

[adi_gallia]

They're the old Dragons right? None of them have wings o_O;

There could be even older Dragons that we don't have the images of?

But why would dragons have wings after THREE generations did not have wings? O_o

Because one of the Staff members have said here that they are trying to keep as true to the original art as possible, which is why Magnus went from having teeth to whiskers to teeth again. Apparently this is why Dragons have no whiskers and wings. But if this is true, give the Dragon it's chin whisker back.

[Patrick]

I still fail to see a decent explanation as to why it was given wings. You say because of 'older versions' but the older version of the Torrent had the angler fish type light on it's head yet now it doesn't.

The personal feeling I get is that the artist wanted to give it wings, and since said artist is basically second to Keith on site, they were allowed to. That's the feeling -I- got. If any other artist did that, added an appendage on, I'm sure staff would have jumped on that right away.

I'm sorry, but with how she gets preferential treatment and does pretty much any revamp and any pet she would want (these being lizards and big hulking things) I'm not too keen to jump on things the staff says. Sorry staff, you can tell me things aren't like that, but from my point of view, it looks exactly like that.

[checkers]

*pssst artists*
I want to see the Angelic Torrent and Reborn Torrent revamps really soon, because I have an Angelic Potion in my vault..and not using it is driving me insane, but I'd rather wait til angelic torrent are revamped, because I have a feeling they'll be nice. (mix of Dusk and Arid, with wings is in my head) ^_^; I wanna know whether to get a Reborn Aeanoid or Torrent{NyauNyau's one hopefully} or a Angelic Darkonite or a Torrent x_x; Please do revamps soon. - Along with the Bloodred Chai *prods Rah* :3

[adi_gallia]

I still fail to see a decent explanation as to why it was given wings. You say because of 'older versions' but the older version of the Torrent had the angler fish type light on it's head yet now it doesn't.

AHH Shhh!!! Don't let them hear that, they might re-revamp it to look goofy again.

[shaelyn76]

At this point they could give the dragon its whiskers back and I would still be furious. They took one of my beloved pets and changed EVERYTHING about it. They changed it with no warning and no input from the users. When feedback was given (most of it very negative as the majority of dragon owners who posted hate it)it was ignored or belittled. It has gone from being 100% about the new look to more of a 70% ager about the new look and 30% anger at the way those of us who said anything negative have been treated. I don't care if many many moons ago there was a picture of the Subeta dragon with wings. There have been at least 3 generations since then without the wings. And lets be honest here folks...how many users who play on the site were even around when the supposed winged dragon was in existence? For the majority of players the only dragon they have ever known on the site was wingless and much more Eastern in influence.


Moving on . I too appreciate the artists and other staff who post here. You run the risk of getting flamed hard and yet you do it anyhow. That takes guts and it shows that there are some staff who do still care what we the users have to say. You are greatly appreciated! I am impressed that Keith posted and I really do hope he keeps his promise to read the entire thread as maybe it will give him some insight as to how angry and upset this particular revamp and its subsequent handling have made a nice portion of people. I hope he can go back through every comment made on the news post even after they have dropped off the screen so he can also see the posts there and the ratio of 1 in favor of dragon revamp to 7 or more who hate it. Speaking of Keith...I don't give a rats ass how he spends his money. If he wants to blow $1000 on an empty box that is his business and not mine. He should be paying himself a salary for all the crap he has to put up with and all the work he has(and I'm sure will in future) put into the site. Ease up on the guy and let him enjoy being a successful business owner. I look back on when I was 18 and working 40 hours a week and I literally cringe at some of the stuff I wasted my paycheck on. But that is the heart of the matter...it was my paycheck to spend as I saw fit.

Summing up...I'm still angry about the utter disregard we have been shown before, during and currently when it comes to the dragon revamp. I don't appreciate the "circle the wagons" mentality that some of the staff seem to have engaged in and I appreciate those who have at least tried to communicate with us and get the facts straight for all of us instead of letting rumors fester. I love the Chai revamp and if my dragon was named differently I would have changed her into a Chai in a heartbeat. I am going to make a concerted effort to remember that some of the staff are half my age and give them some extra leeway, but I will also continue to expect and demand common courtesy given to me as I have given it to them.

end rant

EDI: due to apparent offensiveness

[Wingsrising]

Speaking as someone who doesn't own a dragon and doesn't plan to, my problem with the dragon isn't the whiskers OR wings, it's just that I don't think the art is that good. It doesn't even look muscular to me, it looks like it's made of rubber. It also looks like it has no bones to me, particularly in the shoulders.

I personally just think the previous dragon art was better.

[AngharadTy]

Changing the dragon to look like it used to in its first incarnation makes what sense now? People who joined the site within the past few months are used to the sitting-down, good-art version of the dragon. Only a scant few people even remember the original, bad-art, pseudo-flying pose.

Why on earth would you cater to a scant few, who might not even want it anyway? If you changed the "feel" of the dragon, the time for rectifying that mistake is long past. It's akin to removing the wings from this revamp, but two years from now.

Oh, and yeah. It never had wings. And always had whiskers. Brilliant job.

[Sunwolf]

You know what would be cool? If the Dragon had been revamped to hold a pearl, like Eastern dragons often are. Maybe standing or floating, to show off its long and graceful body. And a rename wouldn't hurt.

The Paralix isn't long enough to pull this off - and its mad. Furious, actually. It always seemed more like one of those fuu-dogs anyway. It never seemed like an Eastern dragon to me - they are wise, benevolent, and long. Everything that the old dragon was.

I mourn the loss of possibility more than the loss of the actual Dragon.

Let the Dragath be the Western dragon - bring back the Eastern one!

. . . so can I be Staff now? I can't believe that this idea occurred to no one during the revamp. I can't draw anything but stick figures, but I have plenty of ideas . . . and I'd work for free . . .

[Keith]

We're working on coming to an agreement on the Dragon with the artist, and there might be another revamp (maybe even polled.)

I"m just going off the version of the dragon Starry (original artist) sent me when I asked her for it. If I still had it (I reformated all my computers in fear of a keylogger) I'd go ahead and post it. But I don't

[Kelpie]

I still fail to see a decent explanation as to why it was given wings. You say because of 'older versions' but the older version of the Torrent had the angler fish type light on it's head yet now it doesn't.

The personal feeling I get is that the artist wanted to give it wings, and since said artist is basically second to Keith on site, they were allowed to. That's the feeling -I- got. If any other artist did that, added an appendage on, I'm sure staff would have jumped on that right away.

I'm sorry, but with how she gets preferential treatment and does pretty much any revamp and any pet she would want (these being lizards and big hulking things) I'm not too keen to jump on things the staff says. Sorry staff, you can tell me things aren't like that, but from my point of view, it looks exactly like that.

You might have to continue thinking that then, because clearly nothing we say is going to help you at all. Why should we even bother posting? Everyone, listen to Patrick, because he apparently has us all figured out, and we're just a bunch of liars. I'm sorry to have misled you.

And, Patrick, your assumption is incorrect. Chimaera is not second in command to Keith, just as I am not second to Keith. Subeta staff has a much more complicated heirarchy than users are privy to, so I would stop assuming otherwise were I you.

As for her species assignments, Chimaera has lizards and more monstery pets because that is what she is good at, AND as of yet we haven't found anyone who wants to do them or enjoys doing them. Why not use her for her obvious talents, regardless of how many species she has under her belt? What's next? Are we going to start complaining that Rah gets all the cute pets? Or perhaps we should fuss with Exhibitted because she gets to do around 9 species all herself.

No. We give each artists what we see them excelling at. Rah does not draw lizards and hulky monsters because she simply isn't good at them. Likewise, Chimaera doesn't draw the cute fuzzballs because she's better suited to do scaley pets. And they're all OKAY with that. As a matter of fact, last I checked, they thanked us for not asking them to draw pets they didn't like just to "even the workload."

Fair workloads don't work in an art department. I'm sorry. You end up with people drawing just because they have to or to meet a quota, and not drawing what they're best at.

You know what would be cool? If the Dragon had been revamped to hold a pearl, like Eastern dragons often are. Maybe standing or floating, to show off its long and graceful body. And a rename wouldn't hurt.

Actually, we are all very much in favor of a rename for the Dragon. We were already considering this.

[AngharadTy]

Some of you are treading dangerously close to flaming. Take it down a notch.

And don't double-post.